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Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: IMGTX] #3217823
03/03/24 06:46 PM
03/03/24 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IMGTX
Originally Posted by 69hemibeep
How do you average the cost of a home charging station into this, My friend had the power company pull in a larger service also.


To be fair I would think look at the service life if the vehicle and divide installation costs over that time.

I.e. if you expect the ev to last 10 years and the cost to install charger is 10,000 then the cost per year would be 1,000.
I made the numbers up but the concept is valid. I would be interested in what actual numbers are to install a station. shruggy

Originally Posted by AndyF

$6900 of car related expenses last year. That is gas, tires, repairs, registration, etc. for the vehicles that I use for my business. I think the total miles driven was a little over 10,000.

But the EV was almost zero. No maintenance costs just a few hundred for tags.

Doesn't the ev use tires too?
To be accurate you should look at tire wear per mile on each car then factor in costs over the miles driven.

You didn't say, but if you replaced tires on 2 gas vehicles that already had 2 years of wear or driven 10 times as much as the ev that had brand new tires when you got it, the numbers may be off.
No doubt the ev is cheaper for the short term but long term will be less rosey. Still better I think but not as pretty as right now.


There isn't a "charger station", just a 240 volt outlet in the garage. My house is new construction so the outlet was prewired. On an older house it can cost a few hundred dollars to pull an additional 50 amp circuit for the outlet.
My EV is a 2020 Leaf that I bought used. The tires are original and only have 10,000 miles on them. They'll last another 5 or 6 years or so since the car doesn't get driven a lot. I do cash based accounting so I don't amortize stuff like tire wear into the mileage. I just report actual costs. Actual maintenance costs for my Leaf have been zero since I bought it.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: AndyF] #3217834
03/03/24 07:26 PM
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Is a Leaf a full electric vehicle, or it is a hybrid?

My 49 Dodge pickup (EFI V8, auto, 4x4) gets driven 100 + miles every week. Depending on the cost of the gas at the pump, (it ranged between 3.15/gal and 3.59/gal in Feb) my fuel only cost is $25-$30 every 100 miles or so, around town. Most of the summer it sees a lot more highway miles and that costs around $5 - $6 less per 100 miles (fuel only). We put 9,000 miles on the 49 in 2023. My truck, during the worst winter conditions has a 150 mile range on the fuel usage before I feel a need to fill up (which takes about 10 minutes at most).

Then is comes down to personal choice. I would much rather drive my 49 that I have about $10,000 invested in, then your Leaf. I have a friend that bought a new Leaf (maybe its the one you have). After 6 months, the traded it in and got an IC car.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: 360view] #3270398
11/14/24 07:36 AM
11/14/24 07:36 AM
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I think this shows how EVs can be efficient but also come with hidden expenses, particularly for people who rely on public chargers.

I’ve been considering renting an EV for short trips to test out the real-world costs before fully committing. If anyone else is in the same boat, it’s worth checking out rental options like https://realcar.miami/ where you can try different models without a long-term commitment.

Last edited by 340rag; 11/16/24 03:58 AM.
Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: 340rag] #3270517
11/14/24 08:01 PM
11/14/24 08:01 PM
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My 2011 Toyota Corolla that I bought for $1500 last November gets 35 mpg. Average price of gas in my area was $3 so a little less than $9 per 100 miles (total costs no car payments) I changed oil once for $30 oil and filter. It has 249,000 miles on it. When figuring cost for any vehicle add in the car payment and insurance, I think this car sold new for right at 10 grand. An old beater that’s paid for will beat the heck out of any EV on ‘fuel’ cost, one can buy A LOT of gas for that $1000 or more a month car payment.! You’re not saving a dime buying an EV

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: cudaman1969] #3270584
11/15/24 11:01 AM
11/15/24 11:01 AM
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my "bus" [1999 "shorty" caravan] was bought 19 years ago for $400.00 with a broken transaxle, where the differential "death pin" exited the case in spectacular fashion.
it had 125k on the clock, and as it came from arizona, it had zero rust, with the exception of the boogers on the bottoms of the front fenders where the foam traps dirt and dust, and with any moisture added, the rust boogers always appear.
a local junk caravan was bought for $75.00 for the transaxle, a trans-go shift kit was installed, as well as the "factory fix" for the "death pin", [just two tin tabs on each side of the pin, retained by the ring gear bolts above and below the pin] new seals where the axles plug in, and it now has almost 200k on the clock. however, i don't drive like i used to when i was still working, which was routinely 6-7 days a week.
as it was rust free, every year since, it has been oiled up underneath, in all body panels, [which included drilling a ton of 1/2" holes in the doors, dog legs, and gate] plus removing the tail lights and all the body plugs, including the ones that are on the inner rocker panels, as well as any other removable item that will allow oil to be blasted into any crevasse and cavity, especially those where that rotten foam is present. it leaks like a sieve forever afterwards, and when the outside temperature is remotely warm.
other than oil changes, a water pump [3.3 engine], hoses, tires, basic maintenance items, and a set of brakes, this thing has been trouble free.
the ac still blows 39 degrees, as it has since day one, with not an ounce of R134 added. [it's possible the ac was worked on before i got it, because of where it came from.]
it has hauled everything from engines and transmissions, to complete rear end housings, plus tires and wheels, and anything and everything one can conjure up to haul.
it gets 26-27mpg loaded or empty, city or interstate, winter or summer, it doesn't seem to matter.
a cheap, well rounded vehicle that is economical to operate, and unless something catastrophic happens to it, will be the last one i'll be buying in what lifetime i have left.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: 360view] #3270587
11/15/24 11:27 AM
11/15/24 11:27 AM
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The cost of oil and a filter divided by my oil change interval and multiplied by 100 miles comes out to $1.18 on my '11 Dodge. That cost would need added to the per 100miles of a gas vs electric comparison. Cost of the labor would need added too since your average consumer isn't doing oil changes themselves.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: 340rag] #3270666
11/15/24 08:48 PM
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Some of the suppliers for my business are 30 to 40 miles away from my shop. When I make a parts run I visit a few suppliers and the round trip is usually around 100 to 120 miles. I drive this parts route at least once a month, sometimes twice a month.
My Leaf goes about 130 miles on a full charge and it costs me roughly $4 to charge it up at home. $4 for 130 miles is roughly the same as $3 for 100 miles.
My 2004 Dodge Ram 5.7 gets about 15 mpg around town and gas is $3.50 here at the moment so it costs me roughly $23 to drive 100 miles with the truck. Given that, I can save $20 per trip by taking the Leaf rather than the truck.
I drive the Leaf and pocket the $20 unless I have to pick up something really big or heavy.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: 73DAD] #3270667
11/15/24 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 73DAD
The cost of oil and a filter divided by my oil change interval and multiplied by 100 miles comes out to $1.18 on my '11 Dodge. That cost would need added to the per 100miles of a gas vs electric comparison. Cost of the labor would need added too since your average consumer isn't doing oil changes themselves.


That is true. My truck costs a lot more to maintain than my Leaf. Oil changes are getting close to $80 around here and I usually change the oil twice a year even though I don't drive the truck more than about 4,000 miles a year. My Leaf is five years old and maintenance costs so far has just been some wiper blades.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: AndyF] #3270669
11/15/24 09:02 PM
11/15/24 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Some of the suppliers for my business are 30 to 40 miles away from my shop. When I make a parts run I visit a few suppliers and the round trip is usually around 100 to 120 miles. I drive this parts route at least once a month, sometimes twice a month.
My Leaf goes about 130 miles on a full charge and it costs me roughly $4 to charge it up at home. $4 for 130 miles is roughly the same as $3 for 100 miles.
My 2004 Dodge Ram 5.7 gets about 15 mpg around town and gas is $3.50 here at the moment so it costs me roughly $23 to drive 100 miles with the truck. Given that, I can save $20 per trip by taking the Leaf rather than the truck.
I drive the Leaf and pocket the $20 unless I have to pick up something really big or heavy.


Does your charger record how much electricity the charge consumed?

Just wondering how you arrived at the $4 figure.

Kevin

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Twostick] #3270725
11/16/24 12:02 PM
11/16/24 12:02 PM
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Is anybody factoring in the cost of a new battery in a EV when it dies in 15 years? This is going to interesting when they get to that age and see what happens. How many will be stuck on the side of the road because the battery won't hold a charge and the owner don't have the $$$ to buy a new one.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Twostick] #3270728
11/16/24 12:10 PM
11/16/24 12:10 PM
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I also "had" an early Leaf. Virtually zero maintenance and I plugged it in during the day to charge. I live in the desert and have solar panels so I don't get an electric bill, so very cheap to run. Over the years the battery range dropped significantly until it was nearly useless. I contacted Nissan about battery replacement and was quoted $22,000 for a new battery for my $3,500 Leaf. While it was cheap to run, the battery cost made it financially impractical for a long term vehicle. It was always a 4th car and I would not voluntarily take a EV on long trips as range anxiety is real. I read China makes a good EV for $10K with range over 200 miles. If such a creature was made here instead and sold for $10K, I'd consider it as a 4th car to save some money. Although with today's high insurance prices, I'm not sure the math would work and I'm not getting rid of my gas cars and CTD.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Tom_440] #3270928
11/17/24 02:12 PM
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First gen Leaf batteries did not hold up well in the heat. I owned my first gen for 5 years here in Oregon and the battery capacity never dropped. But the car was always garaged and we don't get really hot or really cold weather here.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Twostick] #3270930
11/17/24 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Twostick
Originally Posted by AndyF
Some of the suppliers for my business are 30 to 40 miles away from my shop. When I make a parts run I visit a few suppliers and the round trip is usually around 100 to 120 miles. I drive this parts route at least once a month, sometimes twice a month.
My Leaf goes about 130 miles on a full charge and it costs me roughly $4 to charge it up at home. $4 for 130 miles is roughly the same as $3 for 100 miles.
My 2004 Dodge Ram 5.7 gets about 15 mpg around town and gas is $3.50 here at the moment so it costs me roughly $23 to drive 100 miles with the truck. Given that, I can save $20 per trip by taking the Leaf rather than the truck.
I drive the Leaf and pocket the $20 unless I have to pick up something really big or heavy.


Does your charger record how much electricity the charge consumed?

Just wondering how you arrived at the $4 figure.

Kevin


The Leaf has a 40 KWH battery and electricity here is roughly 10 cents per KWH when you add up the cost plus taxes and service charges. The cost of electricity is only 6 cents a KWH but there are other charges on the bill. Some states like CA charge a lot more for electricity so you have to look at your bill before you buy an electric car. Here in Oregon we have really low electric rates. Plus, our weather is perfect for driving an EV. Other parts of the country are not good for EVs. SoCal is one of them even though EVs are popular there.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Moparite] #3270931
11/17/24 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Moparite
Is anybody factoring in the cost of a new battery in a EV when it dies in 15 years? This is going to interesting when they get to that age and see what happens. How many will be stuck on the side of the road because the battery won't hold a charge and the owner don't have the $$$ to buy a new one.


If you're worried about battery life then it is best to lease an EV. In fact, leasing an EV is probably the smartest thing to do these days since the prices on them are dropping as new technology comes out. If you lease one then you just turn it in after 3 years and upgrade to the next technology. If you buy you can get stuck with a car that isn't worth much after 5 years.

Other good idea is to just buy a lease return EV. Let the leasing company take the big depreciation hit. If you buy one that is 3 years old and drive it until it is 10 years old you'll do okay. It won't be worth much at the end, but you'll only have to pay half price for it after 3 years. If you find a super low miles car you should do okay. My second Leaf was a lease return that only had 6,000 miles on it. It was 3 years old but only 6,000 miles so it was basically in brand new shape.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: AndyF] #3270955
11/17/24 04:25 PM
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Electric would be great for me… 16 to 20 miles a day commute. But initial purchase cost kinda blows that out of the water. I’ll just keep driving my 96 Jeep 4.0 XJ. You talk about battery cost?? You’re Eco Diesel takes a dirt nap (we’re up to 26 of them where I work) that’ll set you back $30k!

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: Moparite] #3270990
11/17/24 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Moparite
Is anybody factoring in the cost of a new battery in a EV when it dies in 15 years? This is going to interesting when they get to that age and see what happens. How many will be stuck on the side of the road because the battery won't hold a charge and the owner don't have the $$$ to buy a new one.


I can tell you that Hybrid customers (Prius owners in particular) always seem surprised when they get the news their battery is kaput. We have very few Toyota EVs on the road here in Ohio but I service tons of Hybrids every week at the dealership. We had one Rav4 EV come in with a failed battery and the customer declined the $17,000 battery repair and decided to store it in the hopes battery prices would go down. Most people that buy Hybrids or EVs do it to be "green" not because it will save them money. I know there are a few exceptions to that statement but I have been with Toyota since we started the hybrid revolution if you could call it that. I need to go to HV school in January and I was going to take a pass because I'm going to retire from the wrenching here in a few years and I think it would be a waste of time but my boss insisted to keep my master diag tech status.
So most owners don't ever put away money for their eventual battery failure. Oddly enough I have replaced about a dozen Prius batteries but not one Camry or Highlander battery. Oh well this Hybrid and EV thing isn't going away so I guess I better get trained while they will still pay me to get smarter.

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Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: J_BODY] #3270994
11/17/24 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by J_BODY
Electric would be great for me… 16 to 20 miles a day commute. But initial purchase cost kinda blows that out of the water. I’ll just keep driving my 96 Jeep 4.0 XJ. You talk about battery cost?? You’re Eco Diesel takes a dirt nap (we’re up to 26 of them where I work) that’ll set you back $30k!


Used ones are cheap. I sold my first gen Leaf for $5000. It was a super nice little car. Very dependable, charged on a 110v circuit, very low maintenance costs. But the max range was around 60 miles. Worked great for running around town or a short commute but you wouldn't want to take a trip in it. Great car for a high school kid or a second car or for short commutes.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: AndyF] #3271126
11/18/24 05:41 PM
11/18/24 05:41 PM
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I use about 350 WH/mile. Charging at home (120v, 12A) I pay $0.15 / KWH under a time of use plan (higher m-f, 5-9pm). For fuel, that pencils out to 5.25 cents per mile. A good big sedan might get 28 mpg. At $5/gal (premium, california) they will be paying 17.86 cents per mile, again, for fuel only.

Maintenance, repairs, depreciation, insurance, etc., will affect the overall cost per mile, but for fuel only, the electric car is doing well for me. Now, if I had to use superchargers at $0.50/KWH, my fuel cost would be almost exactly the same as the gas sedan. So the cost has a lot to do with where you do your charging. I know there are some people who are paying as little as 11-12 cents per KWH for electricity which is awesome. Not here, though.

Last edited by calmopar; 11/18/24 05:43 PM.

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Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: calmopar] #3271133
11/18/24 06:20 PM
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Electricity is $0.06 per KWH here in Oregon, but they add fees to it. I pay a fee of $15 per month so my rate varies depending on how much I use.

Re: Cost to travel 100 miles by road vehicle [Re: AndyF] #3271149
11/18/24 07:24 PM
11/18/24 07:24 PM
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Like i said my paid for Corolla gets 38 mpg, 100 miles @ 2.95 a gallon comes out to $7.75 per 100 miles or .077 cents per mile, roughly 8 pennys per mile, if my figures are right. Ill check again.
Hard to believe it could be better than that.
Extra figuring, cost of vehicle. $65,000 EV for 72 months est monthly payment $902. Average yearly driving distance is 7,500 miles @ 5 days driving, 29 miles a day average, = $1.44 PER MILE DRIVEN just for the EV. So 100 miles = $144 on top of the electricity charge. Of course the cheaper the car the less per mile. Even if you paid cash up front that fee still has to be added to the bottom line.
So the old clunker will beat the heck out of any new car or EV.

Last edited by cudaman1969; 11/18/24 08:35 PM.
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