Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3205731
01/17/24 07:17 PM
01/17/24 07:17 PM
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Here are the four (yes, apparently I had four) 143-tooth flywheels...
I have photographed and then rotated them to get as near as I can to having the 6-bolt pattern at the right angle: It now occurs to me that the 'datum line' I am seeking is the line through the pressure plate holes on the North/South axis, that it might be easier with this drilling location for those holes.
Last edited by Phoenix; 01/17/24 08:07 PM.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3205762
01/17/24 08:44 PM
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And here is moparmark's flywheel pic from page 1 with the flywheel rotated to the 'standard' position...
This is a 143-tooth flywheel I now realise.
Last edited by Phoenix; 01/17/24 10:58 PM.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3205791
01/17/24 11:06 PM
01/17/24 11:06 PM
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moparmarks
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It's a 143T from a 72-80 truck. I've parted out a lot of those over the years and I used to have several of these wheels. My 73 W200 360 has it's original wheel which is the same as this one. I don't have any other 143T wheels left but I do have an original 130T 360 wheel.
Last edited by moparmarks; 01/17/24 11:09 PM.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: moparmarks]
#3205810
01/18/24 04:33 AM
01/18/24 04:33 AM
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Thanks for that information, Mark...
I'd imagine there's a few of these hanging around places like Delta, Montrose and Grand Junction. While looking at different stuff, here's another flywheel I have, it's for a 9¼" clutch (slant or early 273?), it has the large holes drilled into it, but at a much greater distance from the centre than the 3.88" specified, more like 5.5":
Last edited by Phoenix; 01/18/24 04:42 AM.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3205836
01/18/24 10:33 AM
01/18/24 10:33 AM
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JohnRR
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Do you have a way to , or a shop that could , check the wheel you plan to use to confirm it is neutral balance before you attempt to drill it ?
Most of the flywheels you show all have been balanced for something except for the top left one in the post with 4 flywheels pictured ...
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3205940
01/18/24 03:44 PM
01/18/24 03:44 PM
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moparx
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as a machinist, what bothers me, there is no mention of what angle the drill is sharpened to. 135* ? 118*? 90*? something else ? I've been asking that for years...common consensus is 118 degrees which is considered the standard. 118* is standard. if i had a factory flywheel to look at, i could easily determine the drill angle. however, i'm an automatic guy, as i have never been able to speed shift a stick worth a hoot. therefore, all my parts stash contains just "shift for you" items.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3205966
01/18/24 04:49 PM
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JohnRR
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I'd have assumed all of them had some form of factory balancing done...
The location of the (relatively small) balancing marks is nowhere near the balancing necessary for externally balanced cranks. Yes , the ones with the small scallops are more than likely the factory balance for neutral , the ones with the holes drilled are for some other balancing of some sort. I had a funny vibration in my 383 dart , when I had my machine shop cut the flywheel and check it balance it was way out and part of the reason was because at one point someone somewhere along the line cut the flywheel at an angle when resurfacing it , it was about .030 thinner on one side vs. the other. If it were me ... and the shops around me were capable of doing it ... I would clean the wheel I want to use that I ASSuME is neutral, have it re surfaced .... if all the heat check marks were out of it then I would have it neutral balanced WITH the pressure plate I plan on using , then do the drilling for the external balance. When I have my neutral flywheels done it's with the pressure plate and the shop marks the 2 pieces of the assembly so I can assemble it as balanced .
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3206103
01/19/24 07:56 AM
01/19/24 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by John_Kunkel I've been asking that for years...common consensus is 118 degrees which is considered the standard. Hi John, over 11 years since we had a chat... I have to work out properly what the drill is. As stated, it's an unused one as far as I know, there are no marks at all on the fluting and it otherwise looks like it's been lying around without any use at all. Trying to calculate the angle from a photo I find it's very hard to do this. I got 132° using this method, but it is fraught with variables.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: Phoenix]
#3206755
01/21/24 09:59 AM
01/21/24 09:59 AM
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B1MAXX
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Just how close do think any of this stuff will be (factory balance)? I can tell you from balancing crankshafts that the tip of that bits angle will be insignificant compared to the overall bobweight. I'm sure the rods are out further than the difference in point angles. If you are trying to duplicate a factory tolerance just drill the holes was my point . They are notoriously horrible which is why the point angle is not worth debating.
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: 360view]
#3206871
01/21/24 02:45 PM
01/21/24 02:45 PM
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Since you have examples, you could obtain “real numbers” on the unbalance weights needed, by spinning those flywheels on a balance machine.
Electric motor repair shops usually have balance measuring machines for large rotors.
Hunter computerized tire and wheel balance machines could calculate a result if an adapter can adjust to flywheel center hole.
You correctly are trying to “get the correct balance.”
By knowing the numerical imbalance you could drill slightly smaller balance holes in the flywheel, then “dial in” a nearly exact balance by enlarging the holes.
There has to be matching “bob weight correction” at the other end of the engine.
When balancing large electric motor rotors it is very common that the two shaft ends need different weight corrections for smooth high speed rpms.
To do that assumes all the pistons, rod small ends, rod big ends, crank weigh the same to start with. Which is not case from the factory. Doug
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Re: How do I locate the 360 flywheel drilling?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#3206942
01/21/24 05:56 PM
01/21/24 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by B1MAXX just drill the holes, some of those engines would rattle your fillings out from new.
They were never a precision balance. That's fine... Now I know that if I do the best job I can it will be all that's needed. And I intend doing the best job I can. Just reading up on the drill tip angles, it would seem to me very likely that the 135° angle is the one. All the stuff I read suggests that the 118° drill is most efficient in 'soft metals' and cites aluminium as the standard there while the 135° drills come into play in harder metals. And while it would be nice to know just to be more correct, it's also good to know that my tooth fillings are likely to stay in as I cruise the B350 at 2,500rpm. This discussion has pretty much forced me to add an avatar to my membership here... here's the full picture which really identifies that it's important for me to get things right as I work on this van:
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