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Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: Flat-Tappet] #3205904
01/18/24 02:56 PM
01/18/24 02:56 PM
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moparx Offline
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nicely done mustang ! up
if i may ask, on the jack locator on the rear end housing, what is the cotter pin's purpose, and the square item [retained by the cotter pin perhaps ?] in the center of the locator used for ?
as to side exhaust, when they came out, my brother and i did that on everything from darts to 4dr imperials, as well as everything in between, because it was cheaper to do than buying tail pipes. biggrin
beer

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: moparx] #3205965
01/18/24 04:45 PM
01/18/24 04:45 PM
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Looks like a drain plug.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: stumpy] #3206004
01/18/24 07:07 PM
01/18/24 07:07 PM
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Yup, likely a combination drain plug & jacking point.
Plug pinned to prevent unwanted loosening.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: Flat-Tappet] #3206020
01/18/24 08:18 PM
01/18/24 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Flat-Tappet
Side exhausts are used in road racing, primarily for safety during refueling at a pit stop. It keeps the exhaust exits away from the fuel cell and the fuel filler located at the rear of the car. I copied the T/A AAR exhaust routing with mufflers for my Mustang, now made street legal after many years as race-only.

You have a very nice car, and this your second post, so I will be very gentle, but I disagree.


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: moparx] #3206022
01/18/24 08:22 PM
01/18/24 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
nicely done mustang ! up
if i may ask, on the jack locator on the rear end housing, what is the cotter pin's purpose, and the square item [retained by the cotter pin perhaps ?] in the center of the locator use for?


In road racing, an analog tracking device for high speed off track excursions? grin


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: topside] #3206034
01/18/24 08:57 PM
01/18/24 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by topside
Yup, likely a combination drain plug & jacking point.
Plug pinned to prevent unwanted loosening.


Yes, that’s it.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: jcc] #3206037
01/18/24 09:08 PM
01/18/24 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by Flat-Tappet
Side exhausts are used in road racing, primarily for safety during refueling at a pit stop. It keeps the exhaust exits away from the fuel cell and the fuel filler located at the rear of the car. I copied the T/A AAR exhaust routing with mufflers for my Mustang, now made street legal after many years as race-only.

You have a very nice car, and this your second post, so I will be very gentle, but I disagree.


Thanks, it’s been a 28 year journey with this car, and loads of fun.

I’m curious to hear your thoughts as to why you disagree. Below is a photo of a hot pit refueling of the Sunoco Camaro that drove the point home -for me anyway. Several early Ferraris with rear exit exhausts had a protective horizontal flange of sheet metal over the pipes exit to prevent refueling spills from hitting the exhaust tips directly.

IMG_4141.jpeg
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: Flat-Tappet] #3206057
01/18/24 10:59 PM
01/18/24 10:59 PM
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Since you asked, our biggest difference here centers around your use of "primarily". My first counterpoint is if safety indeed was a motivation, the lack of any fire suit, goggles, gloves, no socks, and the amount of gas regularly spilled in pit stops, safety seemed to be of minor concern in the big picture IMO, and there are a number of other advantages side exhaust provide that would go more toward winning races, which again IMO was the "primary" concern. I suspect that pavement wetness pictured might be from spilled fuel as is the feeble attempt at the use of safety dri? Although there is a crew barely shown with a water? hose aimed at the refueler just in case. grin Speaking of old pictures, my favorite related fueling pic is at Sebring with a Ferrari team using a very large galvanized wide open top funnel to dump fuel in in the trunk area for a refueling pit stop

BTW, is that Roger Penske at the RF kneeling?

Last edited by jcc; 01/18/24 11:05 PM.

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: jcc] #3206077
01/19/24 12:33 AM
01/19/24 12:33 AM
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Yup, that's Roger - he typically released his cars in that era.
That fueling hose may be attached to the huge gravity-fed rig they ran that year, which IIRC, SCCA eventually banned.
Filled the car VERY quickly...but could make a mess...

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: topside] #3206102
01/19/24 07:17 AM
01/19/24 07:17 AM
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It looks like a typical semi gas tanker hose set-up.
Typical Roger. grin


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: Flat-Tappet] #3206220
01/19/24 02:36 PM
01/19/24 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Flat-Tappet
Originally Posted by topside
Yup, likely a combination drain plug & jacking point.
Plug pinned to prevent unwanted loosening.


Yes, that’s it.



never gave that a thought ! thanks for pointing that out guys ! you learned an old guy something, now if i can just put it somewhere i can remember it....... laugh2
beer

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: topside] #3206362
01/19/24 10:01 PM
01/19/24 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by topside
Yup, that's Roger - he typically released his cars in that era.
That fueling hose may be attached to the huge gravity-fed rig they ran that year, which IIRC, SCCA eventually banned.
Filled the car VERY quickly...but could make a mess...


I’ve always admired Roger Penske and his outside of the box thinking. His team chilled the fuel in that big gravity rig you described using dry ice to make it more dense, and blew it through that ginormous hose into the cell in a matter of seconds. I believe they were filling a 24 gallon cell in just a few seconds. In addition to speed of refueling, they were able to pack a few percent more fuel into the cell when compared to others fueling up at ambient summer temps. I read Mark Donohue’s book “Unfair Advantage” many years ago. And I recall he touched on this refueling topic in it. It’s a great read.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: moparx] #3206364
01/19/24 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by moparx
Originally Posted by Flat-Tappet
Originally Posted by topside
Yup, likely a combination drain plug & jacking point.
Plug pinned to prevent unwanted loosening.


Yes, that’s it.



never gave that a thought ! thanks for pointing that out guys ! you learned an old guy something, now if i can just put it somewhere i can remember it....... laugh2
beer


Yes, that plug and Jack point combo allows you to drain all the oil out of a 9” rear without removing the pumpkin, while also giving some protection for that low hanging plug And in road racing, I’m changing it every couple of events. I believe there a lot of opportunity for “cross pollinating” of ideas between road race and my newfound interest in big Mopar stuff and vice versa.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: Flat-Tappet] #3206379
01/19/24 11:04 PM
01/19/24 11:04 PM
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I personally have a tough time accepting the loss of 1" of sacred hard earned ground clearance with something likely rather adept at catching on something all for the convenience of a jack point.

P6280068 RE drain plug.JPG

Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: jcc] #3206385
01/19/24 11:26 PM
01/19/24 11:26 PM
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Dude, if the center of the pumpkin can hit the ground, you have way bigger problems !

Valid concern on a rock crawler or off-road rig, non-issue on a pavement car.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: topside] #3206400
01/20/24 12:05 AM
01/20/24 12:05 AM
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So we agree, no need for the drain plug protector aspect?
BTW, have you ever left the track at say 100mph only partially under control in a lowered car with some DF, for any number of reasons?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: jcc] #3206435
01/20/24 06:50 AM
01/20/24 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jcc
So we agree, no need for the drain plug protector aspect?
BTW, have you ever left the track at say 100mph only partially under control in a lowered car with some DF, for any number of reasons?


I've done it a few times on a rr motorcycle on the race track at over 120mph and once in the rain at over 100mph if that counts shock

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: A12] #3206452
01/20/24 11:08 AM
01/20/24 11:08 AM
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I know it was factory and one of the things that makes these cars unique. I personally have never been a fan of the look. Just looks cheap to me and outcof place.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: 6PKRTSE] #3206458
01/20/24 11:28 AM
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Um, no, JCC, we don't agree, and you misinterpreted my statement.
And you don't want to compare/measure racing experience with me...I'll just leave it at that.

Re: T/A and AAR Side Exhaust...Why??? [Re: topside] #3206615
01/20/24 06:50 PM
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I think this is all getting way to technical.

the time frame of the design was the late 1960s with the production schedule in 1970.
The side exhaust exit really only needed to look cool and be different, to become reality. If the car company could attach a racing excuse to the cool new thing, it sold better.

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