Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3198896
12/20/23 03:19 PM
12/20/23 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,211 Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB
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We have redrilled MANY Indy intakes to take a 4500 carb and done some simple blending and they worked great. When I went put a 446 out of my 67 D100 into our dragster for my kid to learn in I drilled the very same Indy intake you have from a 4150 to 4500 and did some blending. The car went from running 8.40's here in Vegas to 8.teens... x2
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: HardcoreB]
#3198904
12/20/23 03:50 PM
12/20/23 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,225 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Would love to test it on an engine with 8 EGT's, but looking at the overhead shot of both makes it seem like the mixture distribution wouldn't be as even on the 4500 flange version, a disproportionate amount of the throttle blade looks to favor 1, 7, 2 and 8. I'd expect cylinder to cylinder variation that would be partially resolved with the smaller opening. With EFI you can fix some of that distribution with individual cylinder timing and fuel trims, but you can't fix lower output from less air physically in the cylinder.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3198907
12/20/23 04:09 PM
12/20/23 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,987 A shed in England
Tig
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Would love to test it on an engine with 8 EGT's, but looking at the overhead shot of both makes it seem like the mixture distribution wouldn't be as even on the 4500 flange version, a disproportionate amount of the throttle blade looks to favor 1, 7, 2 and 8. I'd expect cylinder to cylinder variation that would be partially resolved with the smaller opening. With EFI you can fix some of that distribution with individual cylinder timing and fuel trims, but you can't fix lower output from less air physically in the cylinder. 440-3 experience here. #1 and #2 were always the leanest, #3 was a little leaner than the remainder. I had the intake ported and the guy who did it dimpled the runners on #1 and #2, this helped. He had also flowed a -2 (not mine) with and without the 4150/4500 adapter, IIRC he said it lost 10 -12 cfm per port with the adapter. For info we swapped to a 3x and picked up 2 tenths, 25hp on an old 750hp 528 combo.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3198910
12/20/23 04:26 PM
12/20/23 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Would love to test it on an engine with 8 EGT's, but looking at the overhead shot of both makes it seem like the mixture distribution wouldn't be as even on the 4500 flange version, a disproportionate amount of the throttle blade looks to favor 1, 7, 2 and 8. I'd expect cylinder to cylinder variation that would be partially resolved with the smaller opening. With EFI you can fix some of that distribution with individual cylinder timing and fuel trims, but you can't fix lower output from less air physically in the cylinder. We run 8 O2's on pretty much everything. EVERY single 4 intake has issues with distribution. Why they make carbs with circuits to help correct that, if one knows what thye are doing. You can also can use individual cylinder timing to help. Dont matter WHO ports it there is an issue, some better than others but I have yet to see one that does not have that issue.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Thelma133]
#3199042
12/21/23 06:16 AM
12/21/23 06:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,987 A shed in England
Tig
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Just for my own edification, because we are talking about numerous manifolds here, is the 440-3 the new one that Indy sells on their website?? That is the route I have chosen, I don’t want to use a spacer. Thanks 440-2 RB 4150 440-3 RB 4500 440-3X RB 4500 taller and extra plenum volume. 440-3 has been for sale for a while, early ones seemed to be a plunge cut -2, later ones a dedicated cast 4500. All are single plane, part #'s seem to have changed on the new website though
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Tig]
#3199051
12/21/23 08:41 AM
12/21/23 08:41 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,136 Mo.
racerx
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Just for my own edification, because we are talking about numerous manifolds here, is the 440-3 the new one that Indy sells on their website?? That is the route I have chosen, I don’t want to use a spacer. Thanks 440-2 RB 4150 440-3 RB 4500 440-3X RB 4500 taller and extra plenum volume. 440-3 has been for sale for a while, early ones seemed to be a plunge cut -2, later ones a dedicated cast 4500. All are single plane, part #'s seem to have changed on the new website though Thanks for clearing that up....i was getting confuse
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: JERICOGTX]
#3199052
12/21/23 08:57 AM
12/21/23 08:57 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,371 Md.
carnut68
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Any of you gents Know where you can purchase a new Indy max wedge intake manifold with a 4500 dominator top? Indy has one on their site, but it’s $900.00 bucks. Trying to find it somewhere for less. Thanks for any help. They come up on Facebook Marketplace once in a while. Just saw one the other day, for just over half that price, but can't remember the location. maybe around INDY? I think it was northwestern NY. Maybe Niagra Falls.
America First!
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Thelma133]
#3199055
12/21/23 09:25 AM
12/21/23 09:25 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,371 Md.
carnut68
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Any of you gents Know where you can purchase a new Indy max wedge intake manifold with a 4500 dominator top? Indy has one on their site, but it’s $900.00 bucks. Trying to find it somewhere for less. Thanks for any help. Is there a reason why you wouldn't use a Super Victor #2893? $538 @ Summit 10% off if you have a code.
America First!
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: carnut68]
#3199059
12/21/23 09:32 AM
12/21/23 09:32 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,371 Md.
carnut68
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Is this the one you are looking for?
America First!
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3199075
12/21/23 10:26 AM
12/21/23 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,225 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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That's great data Tig and Al, thanks for sharing it! We run 8 O2's on pretty much everything. EVERY single 4 intake has issues with distribution. Why they make carbs with circuits to help correct that, if one knows what thye are doing. You can also can use individual cylinder timing to help. Dont matter WHO ports it there is an issue, some better than others but I have yet to see one that does not have that issue. Appreciate sharing the plot too, always interested in plots like this. And it makes sense any single 4 is going to have distribution issues. I calibrate diesels as my day job and we have many degrees of freedom to adjust issues like that. One thing that has always struck me as interesting, in a boosted application the distribution changes based on manifold pressure and engine speed. We measure the cylinder pressure in real time and also will measure individual and bank average exhaust temps. At different boost levels the correction needed for each cylinder is different, and it changes with altitude too.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Blusmbl]
#3199099
12/21/23 12:50 PM
12/21/23 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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Just have your current intake comnverted to a 4500. The 4150 and 4500 are exactly the same intake casting and you already have it and it has been ported. The 3xis a completely differet intake, larger plenum for a larger engine and was introduced to compete with a B1 intake on an Indy platform.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#3199100
12/21/23 12:52 PM
12/21/23 12:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,544 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
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I Live Here
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Thats just a partial deal for us. We actually monitor 29 different channels these days. Thats a few years old and the spread is even closer now. But not without MANY hours of work on the intake and carb to get there. For instance the carb has three different boosters in it.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Indy 440-1 4500 intake manifold
[Re: Tig]
#3199143
12/21/23 02:35 PM
12/21/23 02:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 193 Kansas
Thelma133
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