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Gear Ratio Changes? #3197458
12/14/23 12:15 PM
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MoparJason0O0 Offline OP
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Wanting to get some advice or examples of anyone changing to Lower gears in 1/8 mile.

Info:
1/8 mile only footbrake bracket car
Current 4.11 gears
1.80 Powerglide
32x14s
Shift at 6700 and cross right around 6700-6800
6.0s at 112mph in 1/8

Any issues going to a 5.00 gear ratio? Thoughts?

Last edited by MoparJason0O0; 12/14/23 02:32 PM.
Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197460
12/14/23 12:27 PM
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I don't have tons of race experience but that ratio change will increase your RPM at 112mph to over 8000

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3197468
12/14/23 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
I don't have tons of race experience but that ratio change will increase your RPM at 112mph to over 8000


moonshine,

Interested to know how you came how with that number?

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197479
12/14/23 01:34 PM
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5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197488
12/14/23 02:32 PM
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Do you know where the engine makes peak power? What is the redline for the engine? Gear changes are a little hard to predict in a drag car with a torque converter since the converter slip changes at the same time. 4:11 to 5.0 is a big change. Racers usually only go one step or two steps at a time but if you have a high RPM engine and you need to move the RPM up a bunch then that change will do it.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3197496
12/14/23 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


The reality is that there is a bunch of converter slip at the 1/8 with the current combo(about 2000rpm worth……..+/- 30%).

That situation should improve noticeably with the lower gears.

Mathematically, the 5.0 gear would still have the drive shaft rpm under 6k @112mph.


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Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: fast68plymouth] #3197559
12/14/23 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


The reality is that there is a bunch of converter slip at the 1/8 with the current combo(about 2000rpm worth……..+/- 30%).

That situation should improve noticeably with the lower gears.

Mathematically, the 5.0 gear would still have the drive shaft rpm under 6k @112mph.


Apologies, I should probably keep my mouth shut lol.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197577
12/14/23 07:50 PM
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Do you have any converter slip info? The best info would be driveshaft RPM from a data logger but if you are sure of your RPM and MPH at the light you can also figure it out that way. When I figure it out I get 35% slip based on 6700 rpm, 112 mph, 4.11 gear and 32 inch tire.

A 5.0 gear with the same 32 inch tire and 6700 RPM would end up being 115 mph in the lights with 10% slip. So you either need to talk to your converter mfg to see what they say, or just try it. If the converter tightens up that much then you'll be golden, if not, you'll need to buy a different converter.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3197578
12/14/23 07:58 PM
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A starting line ratio of 9/1 is very close to optimum, maybe a tad high. 4.88 x 1.8 would be 8.78, not too much unless you have very large stroker motor. I get away with 11.17 due to using a soft launch (low rpm) and 33 inch tall tires.


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Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: AndyF] #3197579
12/14/23 08:00 PM
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What is your improvement goal? That is a big change in gears that could also create issues down low with suspension setup and traction, with a glide I wouldn’t go any steeper than 4.56. Wallace Race Calculator has a bunch of categories that should get you a close idea. Doug


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Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3197617
12/14/23 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


This would be true with a manual trans as long as the clutch wasn't slipping. The problem with the OP setup is that it appears that his torque converter is slipping a ton at the 1/8 mile mark. As far as we can tell from the numbers he posted, his driveshaft is turning about 4400 rpm while his engine is turning 6700 rpm. Could be a bad converter, could be the wrong gears, could be something else.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: AndyF] #3197637
12/14/23 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


This would be true with a manual trans as long as the clutch wasn't slipping. The problem with the OP setup is that it appears that his torque converter is slipping a ton at the 1/8 mile mark. As far as we can tell from the numbers he posted, his driveshaft is turning about 4400 rpm while his engine is turning 6700 rpm. Could be a bad converter, could be the wrong gears, could be something else.



My goal was to accelerate out of the launch harder or faster. If that was to give up a little MPH at the 1/8 I was ok with it. I’m confused some on the converter slipping a “ton”. I told BTE/abruzzi what they flash at, what I shift at and what RPM is at the 1/8 and they both run about the same/setup similar.

Last edited by MoparJason0O0; 12/14/23 11:02 PM.
Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoonshineMattK] #3197640
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Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
Originally Posted by fast68plymouth
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


The reality is that there is a bunch of converter slip at the 1/8 with the current combo(about 2000rpm worth……..+/- 30%).

That situation should improve noticeably with the lower gears.

Mathematically, the 5.0 gear would still have the drive shaft rpm under 6k @112mph.


Apologies, I should probably keep my mouth shut lol.


Heck no, the rest of us too timid too speak up wouldn't be able to learn anything from others stupid comments.

I'm just kidding, don't take it personally. grin


I'm with Helmuth Hübener, and no soup is being served today.
Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197649
12/14/23 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MoparJason0O0
Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


This would be true with a manual trans as long as the clutch wasn't slipping. The problem with the OP setup is that it appears that his torque converter is slipping a ton at the 1/8 mile mark. As far as we can tell from the numbers he posted, his driveshaft is turning about 4400 rpm while his engine is turning 6700 rpm. Could be a bad converter, could be the wrong gears, could be something else.



My goal was to accelerate out of the launch harder or faster. If that was to give up a little MPH at the 1/8 I was ok with it. I’m confused some on the converter slipping a “ton”. I told BTE/abruzzi what they flash at, what I shift at and what RPM is at the 1/8 and they both run about the same/setup similar.


The car will accelerate out of the hole harder as long as you have traction. You have huge rear tires so I assume you have plenty of traction but I guess you'll find out. A simple data logger would answer a lot of your questions but if you don't have access to one you can get a lot sorted out by just using simple math. The math right now shows your converter is slipping about 35% at the 1/8 mark. That isn't a huge surprise if the car is still accelerating hard at that point. Cars set up for the 1/4 mile are often slipping the converter a bunch at the 1/8 mile, especially if they have just shifted into high gear.

How fast should your car go in the 1/8th based on weight and power? That number should be your "guide". Once you know that number you can figure out what your gear ratio should be. It really helps if you know what the power curves for your engine are. If you don't have any dyno data then you have to work off how the car feels. Is the car laying over at 6700 rpm or is it still pulling?

When do you pull into high gear? Pretty close to the finish line or halfway down the track? With the 5.0 gears you might be pulling into high gear pretty soon after you leave the line.

Last edited by AndyF; 12/15/23 12:00 AM.
Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: AndyF] #3197653
12/15/23 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by MoparJason0O0
Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by MoonshineMattK
5 ÷ 4.11 = 1.219

1.219 x 6800 = 8,292


This would be true with a manual trans as long as the clutch wasn't slipping. The problem with the OP setup is that it appears that his torque converter is slipping a ton at the 1/8 mile mark. As far as we can tell from the numbers he posted, his driveshaft is turning about 4400 rpm while his engine is turning 6700 rpm. Could be a bad converter, could be the wrong gears, could be something else.



My goal was to accelerate out of the launch harder or faster. If that was to give up a little MPH at the 1/8 I was ok with it. I’m confused some on the converter slipping a “ton”. I told BTE/abruzzi what they flash at, what I shift at and what RPM is at the 1/8 and they both run about the same/setup similar.


The car will accelerate out of the hole harder as long as you have traction. You have huge rear tires so I assume you have plenty of traction but I guess you'll find out. A simple data logger would answer a lot of your questions but if you don't have access to one you can get a lot sorted out by just using simple math. The math right now shows your converter is slipping about 35% at the 1/8 mark. That isn't a huge surprise if the car is still accelerating hard at that point. Cars set up for the 1/4 mile are often slipping the converter a bunch at the 1/8 mile, especially if they have just shifted into high gear.

How fast should your car go in the 1/8th based on weight and power? That number should be your "guide". Once you know that number you can figure out what your gear ratio should be. It really helps if you know what the power curves for your engine are. If you don't have any dyno data then you have to work off how the car feels. Is the car laying over at 6700 rpm or is it still pulling?

When do you pull into high gear? Pretty close to the finish line or halfway down the track? With the 5.0 gears you might be pulling into high gear pretty soon after you leave the line.



I apologize as I don’t have all the numbers.
The car weighs 2900 with me in it and about 650HP.
It shifts pretty close to half track.
It is still pulling really good at 6700.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197657
12/15/23 12:51 AM
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That is enough info to put into Wallace Racing calculator. The 1/8th mile calculator at Wallace says 650 hp and 2900 lbs will run 6.09 in the 1/8th at 109 MPH and the ideal gear ratio for 6700 rpm and a 32 inch tire is 5.83

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: AndyF] #3197683
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Originally Posted by AndyF
That is enough info to put into Wallace Racing calculator. The 1/8th mile calculator at Wallace says 650 hp and 2900 lbs will run 6.09 in the 1/8th at 109 MPH and the ideal gear ratio for 6700 rpm and a 32 inch tire is 5.83


I was trying to use some of those calculators before my original post and would come up with numbers like that. So there seems to be some slight concerns going to 5.00 but this says ideal 5.83 😳

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: gregsdart] #3197685
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Originally Posted by gregsdart
A starting line ratio of 9/1 is very close to optimum, maybe a tad high. 4.88 x 1.8 would be 8.78, not too much unless you have very large stroker motor. I get away with 11.17 due to using a soft launch (low rpm) and 33 inch tall tires.


I’m interested in what you are trying to say here. It’s a 500ci Indy maxx aluminum block, just 4.15 stroke.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197691
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just from my experience you will not change much by dropping to the lower gears. Your RPM's are close to where you need to be. My experience is from two drag cars. I had a 48 Anglia with a 340 4-speed, used to race 1/4 and 1/8 had 5:12 gears for the 1/8 and 4:56 for the 1/4 one time did not have time to put the 5:12's back in for the 1/8 and it ran exactly the same, I just did not shift into 4th. I recently had a 64 NSS car ran 9's It liked 4:30 gears 1/8 or 1/4 tracks tried several ratios. Just my experience others may vary.

Re: Gear Ratio Changes? [Re: MoparJason0O0] #3197705
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Originally Posted by MoparJason0O0
Originally Posted by gregsdart
A starting line ratio of 9/1 is very close to optimum, maybe a tad high. 4.88 x 1.8 would be 8.78, not too much unless you have very large stroker motor. I get away with 11.17 due to using a soft launch (low rpm) and 33 inch tall tires.


I’m interested in what you are trying to say here. It’s a 500ci Indy maxx aluminum block, just 4.15 stroke.

In my the case, i have 549 cubes, 52% on the front, 2.45 low gear torqueflite, 4.56 rear gears, 30 inch ladderbars, 106 inch wheelbase.
Converter flashes to 6200, shift 7600 rpm or more. The best 60 ft so far is 1.224, and that was with a throttle controller.
The throttle controller keeps throttle at about 10 percent open ,or 3800 rpm till trans brake is released, then takes about .10 to fully open, resulting in a very soft hit and no violent hit on the wheeliebars. This was my first shot at a low rpm launch, but gave me the best 60ft ever.
In your case, with a 1.800 first gear you could leave at 4000, to 4500rpm, run a 4.56 to 4.88 rear gear, and have a KILLER consistant car. The 4.56 might be my choice, because it will be deep enough for near best performance, yet allow your shift to happen further down track for great consistancy, and you stll will be able to run 1/4 mile if desired.
Good double adjustable shocks are important . Consider that an 8.0 starting line ratio multiplies engine torque EIGHT times after the converter doubles it! 700 ft lbs becomes 11, 200 ft lbs at the axles, and. Your springs and shocks have to tame that, and apply it smoothly .

Last edited by gregsdart; 12/15/23 10:34 AM.

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