Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: Streetwize]
#3176597
09/20/23 09:04 AM
09/20/23 09:04 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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Are the heads out of the box? I would think milling them to get to a higher compression (I'm assuming you're running race gas anyway) combined with skilled bowl and chamber porting that enhances the mid lift flows would make more torque/hp would help the ET more than a cam swap on your stock heads. From what I've seen it's not too hard to pick up another 10-15 cfm particularly in the .350-.500 range, so IMO that would be the rough equivalent of adding cam lobe "fatness" (as far as cylinder filling) without impacting the seat to seat cam/converter relationship the car already seems to be working well. pulling up the mid-lifts would be closer to making your flat tappet feel more like a roller with no downside. Bobby - This is what an out-of-the-box Trick Flow chamber & bowl look like
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3176601
09/20/23 09:13 AM
09/20/23 09:13 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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Love the car! Really clean... What's the circumference on the Goodyear radials? The Hoosier 9x30 radials I used to run were available in both 92.5" and 94" (I ran the 92.5"). Your 60-ft seems "soft" to me, although I'm not sure what to suggest given what you've described so far. Our cars are pretty comparable in performance (compared to my last running combination), but mine was pulling low 1.5s when it ran 11.0s at 121 and in the 1.45-1.47 range when it dipped into the 10.5s at 126.
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: Streetwize]
#3176875
09/21/23 08:58 AM
09/21/23 08:58 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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master
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Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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Love the car!! Super clean engine compartment and great running relatively mild combo! If you must go faster, I would try a solid roller and dominator.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: TonyS451]
#3176928
09/21/23 11:49 AM
09/21/23 11:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 125 pa
gregcharger72
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Love the car!! Super clean engine compartment and great running relatively mild combo! If you must go faster, I would try a solid roller and dominator. Thanks. Don't we all want to go faster I'm going taking Andy F's suggestion, and buy the 270 heads. I will have them milled a bit and keep the same cam and see where that gets me. Then sell the 240 heads and intake. I'm thinking that may be the best route. Then if I want more then i can add the larger cam.
Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/21/23 01:05 PM.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3176960
09/21/23 01:45 PM
09/21/23 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 31,261
Oregon
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I think that is the most cost effective way to go for a race engine. Especially if you have the right converter and are geared to keep the engine in the 6000 to 7000 rpm range all the way down the track. Are you going to stay with the 4150 or change to a Dominator? There are Max Wedge intakes for both 4150 and 4500 carbs, but the 4500 setup will make more power. Only issue is that then you'll need to buy a good 1050 Dominator.
Most cost effective way to go would be to buy the 270 heads with the roller cam springs so you're ready for the new roller cam. You'll have to swap your existing flat tappet springs into the 270 heads for now. But then when you're ready to switch to the roller cam you'll have the parts you need.
Last edited by AndyF; 09/21/23 04:16 PM.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: AndyF]
#3176979
09/21/23 03:47 PM
09/21/23 03:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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I'm just wondering (out loud, obviously) if the current cam is big enough to take advantage of the TF270. Guess there's only one way to find out...
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: Brad_Haak]
#3176990
09/21/23 04:36 PM
09/21/23 04:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,501 Sydney,Australia
tex013
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taking the 270 head is the way more bang for buck than a 240 if buying to replace other heads . On my 505ci motor i gained right @ 0.25 ET on my 440ci @ 0.20 give or take . These motors had been running CNC stealth head . I did have a Super Victor stock port that i opened up to max wedge . No other change to motors . Same intake , carb , rocker gear , cam , headers etc . This is a pump gas street exhaust motor . The 440 went from 10.89 to 10.70 . With a 0.520 nett lift sft The 505 went from 10.50 to 10.25 . With a 0.600 nett lift sft
Tex
Last edited by tex013; 09/21/23 04:39 PM.
New best ET 10.259@129.65 . New best MPH 130.94 Finally fitted a solid cam, stepped it up a bit more 3690lbs through the mufflers New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm Power by Tex's Automotive
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: AndyF]
#3177060
09/21/23 07:40 PM
09/21/23 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 125 pa
gregcharger72
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I think that is the most cost effective way to go for a race engine. Especially if you have the right converter and are geared to keep the engine in the 6000 to 7000 rpm range all the way down the track. Are you going to stay with the 4150 or change to a Dominator? There are Max Wedge intakes for both 4150 and 4500 carbs, but the 4500 setup will make more power. Only issue is that then you'll need to buy a good 1050 Dominator.
Most cost effective way to go would be to buy the 270 heads with the roller cam springs so you're ready for the new roller cam. You'll have to swap your existing flat tappet springs into the 270 heads for now. But then when you're ready to switch to the roller cam you'll have the parts you need. I agree . The is plan to get the trick flow 4500 manifold. and send the 4150 carb back to pro systems for modification to a duel pattern throttle plate; only because don't want to remake the air cleaner assembly that matches the hood scoop. This can snowball very quickly.
Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/21/23 07:57 PM.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3177103
09/21/23 09:16 PM
09/21/23 09:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,261 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
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Posts: 31,261
Oregon
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The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them.
Last edited by AndyF; 09/21/23 09:20 PM.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: AndyF]
#3177114
09/21/23 10:48 PM
09/21/23 10:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,270 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,270
New York, USA
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Andy, did you ever do back-to-back dyno testing with just adding your anti-reversion spacer plate? Curious because on a 498” lowdeck stroker, I did back-to-back dyno of a 1/2” anti-reversion spacer and I picked up 11hp with just that change.
Thx
And yes…..absolutely beautiful charger to the OP
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: AndyF]
#3177135
09/22/23 06:55 AM
09/22/23 06:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 125 pa
gregcharger72
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The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them. That's a shame it's a really cool piece , do you have any left I'll take one!
Last edited by gregcharger72; 09/22/23 07:31 AM.
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3177145
09/22/23 08:01 AM
09/22/23 08:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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The dual pattern 4150 is a good idea but you have to make sure it seals up all the way around. Some 4500 intakes are opened up too far for the 4150 base plate. I used to make a 1/2 inch adapter that sealed a 4150 dual pattern carb to a 4500 intake. It had 7 degree taper in the bores and anti-reversion lip on the backside. It worked really well but not very people were interested in it so I stopped making them. That's a shame it's a really cool piece , do you have any left I'll take one! I think I got the last one...
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: AndyF]
#3177328
09/22/23 09:57 PM
09/22/23 09:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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Correct, but I haven't been able to locate an M1 RB 4500 intake that wasn't hacked on by somebody else... or ridiculously overpriced
2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3177357
09/23/23 04:25 AM
09/23/23 04:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,194 Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid
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Detroit, MI
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How many runs on the short block ? What’s in it ? Have you thought about adding a stroker kit and using the top end you have ? So my thinking or wondering is, how much horsepower is left in the cylinder heads? What is the most cost effective way to get where I want to be? Perhaps I should have opened the thread with that question. The combination is a 3700 lbs. with me in it.72 charger. 4.30 gears . 30x9 slick .5200 flash stall converter, footbrake car. The engine is a .030 over 440 with flat top pistons, total seal gapless top rings. 11.7 to 1 compression..ootb 240 heads deep port match trick flow intake by Hughes engines. 1.6 rockers. a 1000 cfm pro systems calibrated carb. A Hughes engines flat tappet cam 254 int,260 exh @ .050 . 640 lift int 656 exh. My best et in very good weather is a10.57 @ 127mph. avg et is 10.73 @125. The engine has 110 runs on it. I'm a lot closer to 10.5 index than the 11.5 index. Can I get 40 hp with a cam change? plz to gimme car
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3253045
08/22/24 08:58 AM
08/22/24 08:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398 Loudoun County, VA
Brad_Haak
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 1,398
Loudoun County, VA
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2021 Challenger 6.4L Scat Pack 1320 100% stock: 1.680, 11.894 at 113.75 (DA 175 ft) weight reduction, wheels, tires, Hellcat air box: 1.661, 11.686 at 115.97 (DA 710 ft)
1973 Challenger 452 ci street/strip [2008] pump gas, DOT radials: 1.454, 10.523 at 126.44 (DA 514 ft)
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3253055
08/22/24 09:52 AM
08/22/24 09:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Probably needs a looser converter to compensate for the bigger ports.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: trick flow 240 cyl head question.
[Re: gregcharger72]
#3253090
08/22/24 11:05 AM
08/22/24 11:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 730 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
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super stock
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Posts: 730
Central TEXAS!!!!
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Can you post a pic of your plugs? Because if you increase the airflow into the engine and didn't pull a little timing, you may be over center.
Joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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