Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3170639
08/26/23 04:38 PM
08/26/23 04:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 289 PA
Harry's Taxi 2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 289
PA
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Can't speak for the big cube part of the question, but years ago 2-650's vs a 750 single on a 446cu.in. was worth about 3-4 mph in the 1/4.
I'm tunnel rams on everything now 493 & 528 cu.in.
'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.
NOS-used when losing since 1940.
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: quickd100]
#3170694
08/26/23 09:23 PM
08/26/23 09:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,023 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,023
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Depends on the quality of the two combos. If you are getting serious HP from a very good single dominater setup, it might only be worth about 20 HP on an original 800 HP motor . Have anything wrong with the new t ram and carbs, and it might even go backwards. So it is a risk, no guarantees.
Last edited by gregsdart; 08/26/23 09:26 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3170738
08/27/23 01:38 AM
08/27/23 01:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742
Bitopia
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Has anyone done back to back testing on big cube race engines from a single 4 to a tunnel ram? My motors out with a spun bearing so thinking of more power but has to be worth the cost. Research "Engine Masters", they love TR's and have Dyno numbers with comparisons to back up their claims.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3170748
08/27/23 07:20 AM
08/27/23 07:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937 A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937
A shed in England
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Has anyone done back to back testing on big cube race engines from a single 4 to a tunnel ram? Not quite back to back but we switched from a well sorted Pro Systems 1050 on an Indy 440-3X to an Indy T/R with 2 x 1150 Gen 3 Dominators, from one season to the next. This is on a 580 engine (4.53 x 4.5). Best to best the difference is only 0.06 in favour of the T/R. However the single only ever ran in the 9.50's once (9.57 @ 142.7) and was used for 8 seasons, the T/R has dozens of 9.50 passes (9.51@142.5 best) and has been on from 2017. Best MPH has always been around 142 with both but the T/R has carded a lot more in that region. The other caveat is the car had an extra 100lb + added a season or so before the T/R was fitted, Then, the 1 x 4 was normally running around the bottom 9.7's with a best of 9.6 something. The car is 4023lb w/d last time we weighed it. Wallace would calculate the 1 x 4 at around 880 hp and the 2 x 4 920 hp, again best to best. Unfortunately I can't back it up as the 580 motor has never been dyno'd. I'm pretty sure the T/R carbs are too big for the engine and it may run quicker with smaller carbs but after a season of tweaking they run well, they were originally specified for a 655 which we "borrowed" them from so they won't be changed. On this engine I would have likely done the swap even if I didn't have the T/R and carbs already but with 1050's. I do like the look of a T/R but the cost of swapping would now be $3500+, though you might get back $1500 for the single stuff. So is the "maybe" 40 hp worth $2K ? Not the best hp per $ return I know but we did pick up something HTH's
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: cudaman1969]
#3170775
08/27/23 10:57 AM
08/27/23 10:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742
Bitopia
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There were two conclusions Engine Masters leaned too as to why TR single vs dual always performed best on a dyno, greater cfm was not one, but straighter air flow out of the base of the carb, and better inherent fuel distribution issues.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3170840
08/27/23 02:22 PM
08/27/23 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937 A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937
A shed in England
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Yes and Yes, it was all upgraded after I was chasing a fueling issue. I'd guess if I can slow down a 655ci 7400rpm motor by installing too big a main jet, I think the fuel system is up to it
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3170851
08/27/23 03:01 PM
08/27/23 03:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,742
Bitopia
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How high can you get the injectors, to help realize the cooling E85 offers you?
Last edited by jcc; 08/27/23 03:02 PM.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3170959
08/28/23 05:39 AM
08/28/23 05:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937 A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,937
A shed in England
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So the motor is 596 Predator engine with a 1250 APD with E85 on Indy's single 4. Dynoed at 1060 on engine and 9.4's at 145 nearly every pass. 3880lb Cuda with me in it. While the motor is out probably goimg to go a bigger cam and fuel injection on a Indy cast tunnel ram. Very expensive but. Have been chasing lean and rich condiotions from one bank to the other with the single 4 so thinking direct port injectors would solve that (but expensive) Just thinking out loud but there's no real need to go to a T/R, injectors will solve the fuel distribution issues on the single plane.
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials. 9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge. RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3171084
08/28/23 01:58 PM
08/28/23 01:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,317 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,317
Bend,OR USA
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EFI, especially the better ones, can help you make the motor last longer and make more power as well. My next blown motor will be EFI fuel injection with a Vortech centrifugal super charger My current bracket, heads up motor (572 C.I. B1 KB aluminum block wedge motor) will have, I'm still assembling it and needing to buy the cam, a sheet metal tunnel ram on a set of B1 heads running two Mark Sullens prep Dominator E85 carbs and maybe adding two kits of NOS, shooting for 1000 to 1400 HP for some local heads no prep racing
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: T-bar]
#3171266
08/29/23 09:26 AM
08/29/23 09:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,407 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,407
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Thankyou for all the replys. I think I will go with injection on my current manifold mainly because of gains compared to cost. I still street drive this car and the costs can get out of hand real quick. Thanks again What you've been told here is basically what I was told several years ago when I was pondering doing the same thing. My hemi is pretty well sorted out w/ a single 4, but of course I was looking for more. To me, it isn't worth what it'd cost to swap to a tunnelram. No matter how cool it looks, lol. Especially when the performance may not even come close to reflecting the cost. I think it'd be faster, but I'm not paying 3 grand or more for a tenth.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Single 4 to 2x4 om big cubes?
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#3171397
08/29/23 03:41 PM
08/29/23 03:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,784 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,784
Eagle, Idaho
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Youtube user Drag Boss Garage has some vintage Pro Stock tunnel ram info on there. You can see how the old school pro stock racers were modifying the plenum size down smaller and messing with the runner angles on those old cast aluminum tunnel rams bitd. He is a Ford guy so it's almost all Ford engines, but the theory of what Bob Glidden and those guys were trying to do to make those work better should apply to any race engine. EDIT: Here is one of those videos. There is another one he has that also shows how they cut the runners and reworked the intake angles. https://youtu.be/toBKoPEW0BU?si=PcINUr31R3F-LxDP
Last edited by Neil; 08/31/23 03:13 PM.
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