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Gear drive binding
#3163950
07/28/23 04:32 PM
07/28/23 04:32 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
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mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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Well I thought I was in the home stretch finally getting this engine done. I put the pan on today, was oil priming when all of a sudden the motor locked up. I was rotating the engine over as I was running the drill. Got everything oiling except driver side rocker shaft when it locked up. Pulled the pan and front cover, only to find my Pete Jackson gear drive bound up. I pulled the idler gear and rocker arms, and everything turns over nice and smooth. Put the idler gear back in and rolls over smoothly once again. I didn’t find anything in the gears, just curious what would cause the binding. I’m semi debating putting the chain on but it is crazy how there is zero play with the gear drive. Would higher spring pressures cause a problem with the gear drive?
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3163996
07/28/23 08:28 PM
07/28/23 08:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,024
NY
B1duster
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,024
NY
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Did you check piston to valve clearance ? Put the rockers back on and try again.
I ran a PJ gear drive for a few years. Not sure if block needs to be clearanced for it.
I did some searching… they say you may have to "clearance" the block for proper idler clearance.
Last edited by B1duster; 07/28/23 09:20 PM.
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3164045
07/29/23 08:39 AM
07/29/23 08:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
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mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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First pictures where the engine is upside down is where it is bound. The second picture is after I took a pry bar to the idler, checked the rotation of the crank and cam (which was good) and re-installed the idler. It turns over very smoothly without the rocker arms on it. My spring pressures are over 400 open now and I am curious if that is part of the problem. The motor is hard to turn over with the rockers arms on it, as you can definitely feel the spring pressure.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164047
07/29/23 08:57 AM
07/29/23 08:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
moparacer
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
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400 lbs spring pressure is nothing. Definitely shouldn't bind a gear drive. Did you verify you had sufficient lash like Rick mentioned in the second post? If you have lash, turn the motor over and it goes away, something is not right. Don't run it. I never used a PJ gear drive but looking at that dual idler setup I would think if a block has been line bored that would tighten the lash, but I dont know how you would deal with that?  I used Milodon single Idler setups before and you could adjust the lash to compensate. Much better IMO.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: moparacer]
#3164053
07/29/23 09:36 AM
07/29/23 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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I’m headed to the shop now to measure the lash. Do you check it with tension on the cam gear (rockers installed) or without?
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164060
07/29/23 10:11 AM
07/29/23 10:11 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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Measuring like is shown, I get .010 on the left gear. The right side gear has zero.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164065
07/29/23 10:21 AM
07/29/23 10:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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Measuring from the cam gear I get .017.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: Stanton]
#3164084
07/29/23 11:32 AM
07/29/23 11:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
clovis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 554
Kentucky
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I was reading the instructions for the summit brand set and it said the idler gear (small gear) should have .005-.0075 vertical movement. Measuring as shown in the picture the lash is virtually nil and there is no vertical movement.
Last edited by clovis; 07/29/23 12:22 PM.
'75 Plymouth Duster
Phase I 451 906/590/2-660 10.75/126
Phase II 451 Stage VI/590/1050 9.82/135
Phase III 383 906/Victor-Pump gas 11.30/119
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164127
07/29/23 03:01 PM
07/29/23 03:01 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 763
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 763
Southington Ct.
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I have a question, Is that metal debris chunk on the idler in picture 1(Left) on a tooth near the 6 o-clock position ? Is there anything behind the idlers to get caught on or bind on ? Like an oil passage or casting flash ? What controls the fore and aft movement of the idlers ? How about he cam thrust ?
AG.
Last edited by turbobitt; 07/29/23 03:02 PM.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164128
07/29/23 03:04 PM
07/29/23 03:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 763
Southington Ct.
turbobitt
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 763
Southington Ct.
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I was reading the instructions for the summit brand set and it said the idler gear (small gear) should have .005-.0075 vertical movement. Measuring as shown in the picture the lash is virtually nil and there is no vertical movement. I hate to be a critic about this but I see metal debris in this pic also. Very top of pic on gear.. AG.
1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy.
1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno.
1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: clovis]
#3164148
07/29/23 04:50 PM
07/29/23 04:50 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
moparacer
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
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I was reading the instructions for the summit brand set and it said the idler gear (small gear) should have .005-.0075 vertical movement. Measuring as shown in the picture the lash is virtually nil and there is no vertical movement. Nope that won't work.zero clearance at any point bad things will happen most likely. I would put a chain on it.
Last edited by moparacer; 07/29/23 04:53 PM.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: moparacer]
#3164159
07/29/23 05:46 PM
07/29/23 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,771
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
GomangoCuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,771
Moved to N.E. Tennessee
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I was reading the instructions for the summit brand set and it said the idler gear (small gear) should have .005-.0075 vertical movement. Measuring as shown in the picture the lash is virtually nil and there is no vertical movement. Nope that won't work.zero clearance at any point bad things will happen most likely. I would put a chain on it. The dual idler gear floats. Push one idler gear tight into crank and cam gears and then measure the vertical movement at the other idler gear. If there still is no movement then perhaps your block has been line bored which moves the crank up a few thou.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: GomangoCuda]
#3164160
07/29/23 05:53 PM
07/29/23 05:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
moparacer
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,530
PA
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I was reading the instructions for the summit brand set and it said the idler gear (small gear) should have .005-.0075 vertical movement. Measuring as shown in the picture the lash is virtually nil and there is no vertical movement. Nope that won't work.zero clearance at any point bad things will happen most likely. I would put a chain on it. The dual idler gear floats. Push one idler gear tight into crank and cam gears and then measure the vertical movement at the other idler gear. If there still is no movement then perhaps your block has been line bored which moves the crank up a few thou. That is what I said earlier. Line bore could remove the clearance and then the problems start.
67 Barracuda street/bracket car 11.27-119
68 Dart 502 BB 8.70s-152
414 cid SB Dragster 7.65-174
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Re: Gear drive binding
[Re: moparacer]
#3164213
07/30/23 01:34 AM
07/30/23 01:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,024
NY
B1duster
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,024
NY
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