Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Tig]
#3155870
07/01/23 09:59 AM
07/01/23 09:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 284 Falcon, CO
Mad-Max
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 284
Falcon, CO
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Dino or synthetic will both 'work' fine, and you're unlikely to notice any difference by switching to synthetic. It costs more, and you'll not likely to reap the benefits of longer change intervals because I wouldn't let the engine go longer than 3-5k miles anyway (I change my flat-tappet engines every 3k), which is why I haven't switched to synthetic in any of my older engines and for sure not in my 5.9 Cummins. I change the oil long before the advertised change interval, especially diesel because of the soot buildup in the oil, making it dirty. IOW, the synthetic oil may not 'break down' as fast as dino (hence the longer change intervals), but the dirt contamination that happens in diesels occurs much sooner than the interval change of synthetics advertise, requiring a change sooner anyway. So, IMO using synthetic in a diesel is literally a waste of money, and in any other application (other than what an OE recommends - ie. new cars), change intervals aside I haven't seen the advantages add up enough for synthetic to be worth the cost. But, ZDDP is the kicker - if you've got a flat-tappet cam you for sure need the high-zinc oils as mentioned above, dino or syn. So...if your 340 has a big cam in it with aggressive lobes and you run it like it should be run , and if you're planning to change the oil at 3-5k miles anyway, the syn oils IMO are not worth the higher cost.
Last edited by Mad-Max; 07/01/23 10:43 AM.
71 Demon (project): 318, A-833od, 8-3/4, 3.23's 14 Wrangler JKU M-380 "Kilroy" (under construction): Magnum 360, 46rh, Atlas4, D60/14b-5.38s-Grizzlys, 40s 07 Ram 3500 MegaDually 4x4 "Big Mack": 5.9 6BT, G56 'Toy Hauler' 52 Willys M-38 "Poncho"
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3156622
07/03/23 04:14 PM
07/03/23 04:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,730 Shopping @ HoBo Fright
340SIX
Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
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Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,730
Shopping @ HoBo Fright
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Those 2? My guess is dingleberry hone on a dirty shop floor with a cordless 18volt drill. Washed up with a pressure washer, dried in sun and blow dried with air. Assembled with new bearings, rings, and gaskets from a kit in a box from PAW that was sitting around with a half inch of dirt and dust. Brand new top quaity cam, lifters, roller rockers and custom push rods. We will mention your company name 30 times on TV for free sh!t Wilson ported intake and high dollar carb. Left over from other test. Yes it's a crazy guess but close to how they do builds. Screw the short block, damm the torpedoes, full speed ahead......
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Mad-Max]
#3156681
07/03/23 07:31 PM
07/03/23 07:31 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,589 nowhere
Sniper
master
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,589
nowhere
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But, ZDDP is the kicker - if you've got a flat-tappet cam you for sure need the high-zinc oils
In general, no you don't NEED high zinc oil. It depends on the application, mostly the cam and valve springs. Something like my 51 Plymouth's stock flathead does not need it, never did and never will. A stock 318/225 nope. Something with a high/aggressive lift cam and the appropriate springs, yep.
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Sniper]
#3156770
07/03/23 11:24 PM
07/03/23 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,730 Shopping @ HoBo Fright
340SIX
Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
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Doc Flappergas's Evil Twin
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,730
Shopping @ HoBo Fright
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But, ZDDP is the kicker - if you've got a flat-tappet cam you for sure need the high-zinc oils
In general, no you don't NEED high zinc oil. It depends on the application, mostly the cam and valve springs. Something like my 51 Plymouth's stock flathead does not need it, never did and never will. A stock 318/225 nope. Something with a high/aggressive lift cam and the appropriate springs, yep. The . I need zinc
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3156772
07/03/23 11:52 PM
07/03/23 11:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 721 California
BigDaddy440
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 721
California
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This is what I've understood to be true since synthetics oils came out. Personally I don't run synthetics on any older engine that wasn't designed for them to begin with. If you're looking for peace of mind, just know that the conventional oils we have today are significantly better than yesterday's oils. It's true, most of them have done away with zinc, but you can still find oils with it, or you can add a bottle of zinc additive if you have a flat tappet camshaft. '
1969 A12 Roadrunner 1970 Plymouth Cuda 1968 Dodge Dart
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Sniper]
#3156800
07/04/23 07:57 AM
07/04/23 07:57 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,415 Pa
Hot 340
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,415
Pa
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Anyone telling you there would be negative effects, other than on your bank account, is someone to pass by when advice is being handed out. lol I asked Kip at Cam Motion about synthetics with flat tappet cams. He said even if zinc is sufficient, the synthetics will hamper lifter rotation, (too slippery)therefore NOT recommended
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Hot 340]
#3156852
07/04/23 11:21 AM
07/04/23 11:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,422 ohio
ruderunner
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,422
ohio
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My experience with changing to synthetic is increased consumption but this might vary by brand.
Over the years I've seen several folks change to "high mileage " synthetic and suddenly start losing lots of oil. No leaks ever found so where's it going? Past the rings and valve guides, then out the tailpipe. The more pure base stock and modern catalytic converters eliminate the traditional blue haze.
The solution is to go back to dead dinosaurs.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: ruderunner]
#3157087
07/04/23 11:27 PM
07/04/23 11:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,358 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,358
Someplace you aren't
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If synthetic cleans away deposits you’ll see consumption go up. We had a fleet of diesels do that after we put an additive in our bulk tank. Took a bit of time and then bam it hit and was shocking.
On zinc, Valvoline says you don’t have to worry about it with modern oil because other things in the mix take care of the issue. But they still sell you VR1 if you want and that’s what I use.
I want my fair share
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3157117
07/05/23 07:43 AM
07/05/23 07:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Nothing wrong w/ synthetic oil. If it's a flat tappet cam then I'd pour in a bottle of zinc additive.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: limechallenger]
#3157130
07/05/23 08:59 AM
07/05/23 08:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053
Benton, IL.
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I've got a 70 Challenger T/A with a slightly built 340-6 ,I've always used conventional oil,but wondering if a switch to synthetic will have any negative affects? Thought I'd ask before doing it! Thanks Just a simple question; you say you have always used conventional oil, so how many oil related issues have you had over the years? And haven't we have beat on and raced our Mopars for over half a century with lesser quality oils than we have available today with good success? And here is an interesting point that was brought up in a similar thread on another board; ALL modern oils have a significant amount of synthetic additives (including conventional oils) to make them what they are. How much more synthetic material would you think is necessary? Today's engines are vastly different in design and tolerances than our old dinosaurs. And demand different oils than our old dinosaurs. Who here is going to put 0-10 in their Mopar? The ultra thin viscosities is one of the main reasons for the proliferation of synthetics for daily drivers. All oils have an API rating. That is the 'starburst' typically printed on the back of the container. Today's rating is SN. That is a much, much higher rating than our engines have ever had access to which translates to much, much better oil. For comparison, the now obsolete rating at the time most of our engines were built was SD. And it's interesting to note that whether the oil is syn, blend, or conventional, the rating is the same. The only real difference for most (not all) of our older engine applications, is the cost. IMHO, Valvoline VR-1 is the best oil for most of us who are not racing and for many who are. It is cost effective, readily available, has ample flat tapper additives, and has proven itself in countless engines including mine. I run it in my Hemi and my wedges. Nearly 7,000 RPM, heavy valve springs, flat tappet cams and many street years of street miles with the occasional visit to the track. Absolutely no oil related problems. Ever. What is there to improve on?
Master, again and still
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#3157147
07/05/23 10:05 AM
07/05/23 10:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053
Benton, IL.
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And that is why VR-1 is such a good choice. It has the additional ZDDP that some of our engines require as well as the latest synthetic additives that make today's oils so much better than oils of old.
Again, all modern oils have a significant amount of synthetic additives. They are obviously not straight crude. So, how much addition synthetics is the right amount? 10%? 25%? 50%? 100%?
Is there any real advantage to a syn blend or a full syn over conventional oils that have their own volume of synthetics? And given our decades and decades of success with the old oils, what would that advantage really be?
And I don't know about you, but I haven't experienced 'sludging' much the last few decades. Except maybe the Chrysler 2.7. And I go through a lot of cars and trucks every year.
Master, again and still
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: DaveRS23]
#3157189
07/05/23 12:11 PM
07/05/23 12:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364 Morrow, OH
markz528
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,364
Morrow, OH
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I've got a 70 Challenger T/A with a slightly built 340-6 ,I've always used conventional oil,but wondering if a switch to synthetic will have any negative affects? Thought I'd ask before doing it! Thanks Just a simple question; you say you have always used conventional oil, so how many oil related issues have you had over the years? And haven't we have beat on and raced our Mopars for over half a century with lesser quality oils than we have available today with good success? And here is an interesting point that was brought up in a similar thread on another board; ALL modern oils have a significant amount of synthetic additives (including conventional oils) to make them what they are. How much more synthetic material would you think is necessary? Today's engines are vastly different in design and tolerances than our old dinosaurs. And demand different oils than our old dinosaurs. Who here is going to put 0-10 in their Mopar? The ultra thin viscosities is one of the main reasons for the proliferation of synthetics for daily drivers. All oils have an API rating. That is the 'starburst' typically printed on the back of the container. Today's rating is SN. That is a much, much higher rating than our engines have ever had access to which translates to much, much better oil. For comparison, the now obsolete rating at the time most of our engines were built was SD. And it's interesting to note that whether the oil is syn, blend, or conventional, the rating is the same. The only real difference for most (not all) of our older engine applications, is the cost. IMHO, Valvoline VR-1 is the best oil for most of us who are not racing and for many who are. It is cost effective, readily available, has ample flat tapper additives, and has proven itself in countless engines including mine. I run it in my Hemi and my wedges. Nearly 7,000 RPM, heavy valve springs, flat tappet cams and many street years of street miles with the occasional visit to the track. Absolutely no oil related problems. Ever. What is there to improve on? This is a complex and polarizing topic. I personally lost 2 flat tappets using VR-1. One I personally installed and one I inherited with a car I bought. Do I know the root cause? Nope. But it caused me to switch to Driven oil. So far so good for me with Driven oil. What is the zinc content in VR-1 versus Driven? I looked it up at one time but don’t remember the number.
67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph 67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph 69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: markz528]
#3157244
07/05/23 01:50 PM
07/05/23 01:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Master of nothing...
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Master of nothing...
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053
Benton, IL.
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The ONLY possible advantages that VR-1 might have over Driven, I already listed; price and availability. But except for that, there would be no reason to switch to VR-1.
Master, again and still
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Re: Switch to synthetic oil
[Re: cagebob1]
#3159087
07/12/23 11:27 AM
07/12/23 11:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,387 Houston,Tx.
Lee446
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,387
Houston,Tx.
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About 20 years ago, I switched over to Mobil 1 10/30 in my street/bracket car. It had a well worn and loose 440 6 pac that only blew a little smoke out the pipes on the big end. It also had enough blow by to lift the dipstick up a tad at the 6k shift point. Long story short, I changed to synthetic before a trip to the track and on the way, I showered down on it and when we got to the track, my buddy who was following behind me had fresh clean oil spots on his hood and windshield, I also had them on my back bumper. The synthetic was so much more slippery that it was getting by the rings, I went back to dino and it went away. I run synthetic in my modern cars and it is great, but if your old engine is well worn it might not be a good choice! Needless to say, I rebuilt that engine the next winter.
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