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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: TC@HP2] #3153918
06/23/23 08:52 PM
06/23/23 08:52 PM
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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: resqguy] #3153953
06/24/23 05:41 AM
06/24/23 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by resqguy
Quote
The U.S Navy detected the implosion when it happened on Sunday and didn't publicly say anything. They probably didn't want to expose their Top Secret listening capabilities.


This technology was Top Secret 40 years ago. Not only do the Russians and Chinese know about this technology, they have the technology themselves. The public learned about this 30 years ago. Who are they trying to kid? The head of the US Navy owes the world an explanation.


I agree, mostly.

The whole science of Geology was significantly advanced when the magnetic sensing part of that “submarine listening” system was shared with the public and showed that the ocean floor was mostly on/off flows of undersea lava, and that the Earth’s magnetic North/South poles “flip” repeatedly over long time periods.

I say “mostly” above
because the Navy may have hugely upgraded that undersea system to do far more than sense sound and magnetism.

There is a huge “stream” or “flux” of sub-atomic particles flowing through the Earth and oceans that could be used to detect submarines and “who knows” what secret sensors may have been made good enough to be of military use.

Sonar has been around a long time but I personally was surprised at how clear and detailed the 12,500 foot deep sonar scan from a surface ship was that the Wall Street Journal had in their article.

I hope the US Navy can do things no other navy can do.

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3153970
06/24/23 08:55 AM
06/24/23 08:55 AM
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I was flipping threw the news channels last night and i still have not seen the debris field. Guess they don't have time to look over everything to distinguish if it might be a body part. At that depth i doubt anything is left.

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3154033
06/24/23 02:55 PM
06/24/23 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 360view
Originally Posted by resqguy
Quote
The U.S Navy detected the implosion when it happened on Sunday and didn't publicly say anything. They probably didn't want to expose their Top Secret listening capabilities.


This technology was Top Secret 40 years ago. Not only do the Russians and Chinese know about this technology, they have the technology themselves. The public learned about this 30 years ago. Who are they trying to kid? The head of the US Navy owes the world an explanation.


I agree, mostly.

The whole science of Geology was significantly advanced when the magnetic sensing part of that “submarine listening” system was shared with the public and showed that the ocean floor was mostly on/off flows of undersea lava, and that the Earth’s magnetic North/South poles “flip” repeatedly over long time periods.

I say “mostly” above
because the Navy may have hugely upgraded that undersea system to do far more than sense sound and magnetism.

There is a huge “stream” or “flux” of sub-atomic particles flowing through the Earth and oceans that could be used to detect submarines and “who knows” what secret sensors may have been made good enough to be of military use.

Sonar has been around a long time but I personally was surprised at how clear and detailed the 12,500 foot deep sonar scan from a surface ship was that the Wall Street Journal had in their article.

I hope the US Navy can do things no other navy can do.


Watch the youtube videos of "Smarter Every Day" where he spends time on the nuclear submarine.


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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: Moparite] #3154296
06/26/23 06:42 AM
06/26/23 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Moparite
I was flipping threw the news channels last night and i still have not seen the debris field. Guess they don't have time to look over everything to distinguish if it might be a body part. At that depth i doubt anything is left.


The bodies were vaporized. No trace will ever be found of them.


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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: JERICOGTX] #3154300
06/26/23 07:00 AM
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I kinda lean toward that conclusion that nothing identifiable remains,
especially since the implosion allegedly was sonar located at 9,000 feet, giving 3500 feet above sea bottom for currents to carry off remainders.

On the other hand the Russian Submarine K-129 that imploded at great depth
had identifiable sailor remains when the Golmar Explorer crane lifted it up many months later:

https://www.maritime-executive.com/features/grand-finale-for-infamous-glomar-explorer-part-1_1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3154340
06/26/23 11:27 AM
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Big differences between the vessels.


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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: JERICOGTX] #3154969
06/28/23 02:04 PM
06/28/23 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by Moparite
I was flipping threw the news channels last night and i still have not seen the debris field. Guess they don't have time to look over everything to distinguish if it might be a body part. At that depth i doubt anything is left.


The bodies were vaporized. No trace will ever be found of them.


Think about what happens to air in your air compressor. Going from static to 130psi and the heat in that air. Multiply that change times 100 or 1000. Happens so fast, it never registers with the person.

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3154978
06/28/23 03:01 PM
06/28/23 03:01 PM
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66045554

pictures of wreckage being transferred ship to truck

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: JERICOGTX] #3155083
06/28/23 09:09 PM
06/28/23 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by Moparite
I was flipping threw the news channels last night and i still have not seen the debris field. Guess they don't have time to look over everything to distinguish if it might be a body part. At that depth i doubt anything is left.


The bodies were vaporized. No trace will ever be found of them.



They found traces of them

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sion-debris-remains-latest-b2365445.html


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: crackedback] #3155108
06/28/23 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by crackedback
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by Moparite
I was flipping threw the news channels last night and i still have not seen the debris field. Guess they don't have time to look over everything to distinguish if it might be a body part. At that depth i doubt anything is left.


The bodies were vaporized. No trace will ever be found of them.


Think about what happens to air in your air compressor. Going from static to 130psi and the heat in that air. Multiply that change times 100 or 1000. Happens so fast, it never registers with the person.


Human body is 80% water?
Water handles high PSI rather well.
I suspect remains suffered from extreme blunt force trauma as the seawater rushed in at very high speed in what has been estimated within 20 milliseconds?
An analogy might be similar to dropping a water balloon into deep water, it would be impacted little any at depth it sank to, even if it had any air trapped within.

Last edited by jcc; 06/28/23 11:58 PM.

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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: jcc] #3155112
06/29/23 12:01 AM
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The air bubble they were sitting in would be akin to a diesel combustion chamber, but not 50 to 1 compression, 38 million to one, each. Cooked, then shot out of a cannon to be one with the sea

Which begs the question, why arent we using deep sea pressure for free energy?

Last edited by Dart 500; 06/29/23 12:02 AM.
Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3155134
06/29/23 05:42 AM
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I have read that the composite shell was 5 inches thick but in the pictures the broken edges look more like ‘eggshells’ at first glance.

If the center section had been all titanium what would have been the added cost, is a thought.
Divide that cost by five passengers.
Compare to vacation voyage price per paying passenger.
Compare to passenger net worth in $.

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: Dart 500] #3155139
06/29/23 06:12 AM
06/29/23 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dart 500
The air bubble they were sitting in would be akin to a diesel combustion chamber, but not 50 to 1 compression, 38 million to one, each. Cooked, then shot out of a cannon to be one with the sea

Which begs the question, why aren't we using deep sea pressure for free energy?

I have no idea what your point is here.
And there is no such thing yet, as "free energy".


"When one’s appeal is emotional, it does not matter if there is no substance."
Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3155144
06/29/23 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 360view
I have read that the composite shell was 5 inches thick but in the pictures the broken edges look more like ‘eggshells’ at first glance.

If the center section had been all titanium what would have been the added cost, is a thought.
Divide that cost by five passengers.
Compare to vacation voyage price per paying passenger.
Compare to passenger net worth in $.


The pictures you saw IMO are akin to seeing the body sheet metal after the wreck of a NASACR stocker, ie they were only the cosmetic outer shell, not the structure.

I read the original design called for a 7" thick pressure vessel, but they reduced it to 6". Properly manufactured 96" diameter cylinder shaped CF will handle 6K psi all day long, but cyclical fatigue life with that loading is above my pay grade. I don't know how low temperature might under rate it, and I have no idea what safety factor is at play. The most problematic aspect is the proper connection/retention of the CF with the needed Titanium hard points in the design and the likely source that initiated the fatal failure.

The CF material choice was likely a huge initial cost savings in material and fabrication, and a weight savings vs Titanium.


"When one’s appeal is emotional, it does not matter if there is no substance."
Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: jcc] #3155232
06/29/23 11:56 AM
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as much as this is a human tragedy, man will add to his knowledge.
this is a "well, back to the drawing board" moment in history.............

Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: jcc] #3155261
06/29/23 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by 360view
I have read that the composite shell was 5 inches thick but in the pictures the broken edges look more like ‘eggshells’ at first glance.

If the center section had been all titanium what would have been the added cost, is a thought.
Divide that cost by five passengers.
Compare to vacation voyage price per paying passenger.
Compare to passenger net worth in $.


The pictures you saw IMO are akin to seeing the body sheet metal after the wreck of a NASACR stocker, ie they were only the cosmetic outer shell, not the structure.

I read the original design called for a 7" thick pressure vessel, but they reduced it to 6". Properly manufactured 96" diameter cylinder shaped CF will handle 6K psi all day long, but cyclical fatigue life with that loading is above my pay grade. I don't know how low temperature might under rate it, and I have no idea what safety factor is at play. The most problematic aspect is the proper connection/retention of the CF with the needed Titanium hard points in the design and the likely source that initiated the fatal failure.

The CF material choice was likely a huge initial cost savings in material and fabrication, and a weight savings vs Titanium.



The white pieces you see in the salvage parts and in pictures of the sub before the dive are just a nice looking façade and have nothing to do with the carbon fiber tube holding the pressure... I have not seen any carbon fiber pieces in the recovered pics likely because it shattered and mostly floated off in the current. That brings us to why he chose CF instead of Fe or Ti, it could float with the air trapped inside where Ti and Fe would not float and would need propulsion capable of bringing it back up or 2.5 mile cable. This is why he thought he could not die, his theory was that the ballast that made it sink was supported by ropes that would dissolve in the sea water after a day or so and they would float back up and be found and rescued within the 5 days before the oxygen ran out. Some people are slamming him for using a cheap Ti and plexiglass end cap saying those likely were what failed (at least before the pics showed up of the parts) but in the pictures of recovered parts those appear to be totally intact. Some people seem to want the carbon fiber failure to have not been the cause because it is "new" and cool but from what I have seen they most likely caused the failure of the sub. Sometimes old and proven technology just doesn't need to be replaced. The CF evidently could not handle the cold and enormous load cycling, 5500 PSI is like having a modern 1/2 ton 4x4 4 door truck pressing on one square inch of the sub, if it had (just ball parking and probably a low estimate) 200 square feet of surface area with 5500# pressing on every square inch that is like having 28,800 of those 1/2 ton trucks pressing on the sub or over 158 MILLION pounds of force, you can evidently only load and unload 158 million pounds on the tiny sub before it gives up, based on testimony of previous "explorers" the thing would snap crackle and pop all the way down and back up so it should have been clear it was degrading with the cycles and was no doubt going to fail. As for what happened to the people inside they were crushed like a fly with a sledge hammer, whatever bits and pieces they have found of them are only going to be identified by DNA testing.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: 360view] #3155312
06/29/23 03:31 PM
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Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: HotRodDave] #3155316
06/29/23 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HotRodDave
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by 360view
I have read that the composite shell was 5 inches thick but in the pictures the broken edges look more like ‘eggshells’ at first glance.

If the center section had been all titanium what would have been the added cost, is a thought.
Divide that cost by five passengers.
Compare to vacation voyage price per paying passenger.
Compare to passenger net worth in $.


The pictures you saw IMO are akin to seeing the body sheet metal after the wreck of a NASACR stocker, ie they were only the cosmetic outer shell, not the structure.

I read the original design called for a 7" thick pressure vessel, but they reduced it to 6". Properly manufactured 96" diameter cylinder shaped CF will handle 6K psi all day long, but cyclical fatigue life with that loading is above my pay grade. I don't know how low temperature might under rate it, and I have no idea what safety factor is at play. The most problematic aspect is the proper connection/retention of the CF with the needed Titanium hard points in the design and the likely source that initiated the fatal failure.

The CF material choice was likely a huge initial cost savings in material and fabrication, and a weight savings vs Titanium.



The white pieces you see in the salvage parts and in pictures of the sub before the dive are just a nice looking façade and have nothing to do with the carbon fiber tube holding the pressure... I have not seen any carbon fiber pieces in the recovered pics likely because it shattered and mostly floated off in the current. That brings us to why he chose CF instead of Fe or Ti, it could float with the air trapped inside where Ti and Fe would not float and would need propulsion capable of bringing it back up or 2.5 mile cable. This is why he thought he could not die, his theory was that the ballast that made it sink was supported by ropes that would dissolve in the sea water after a day or so and they would float back up and be found and rescued within the 5 days before the oxygen ran out. Some people are slamming him for using a cheap Ti and plexiglass end cap saying those likely were what failed (at least before the pics showed up of the parts) but in the pictures of recovered parts those appear to be totally intact. Some people seem to want the carbon fiber failure to have not been the cause because it is "new" and cool but from what I have seen they most likely caused the failure of the sub. Sometimes old and proven technology just doesn't need to be replaced. The CF evidently could not handle the cold and enormous load cycling, 5500 PSI is like having a modern 1/2 ton 4x4 4 door truck pressing on one square inch of the sub, if it had (just ball parking and probably a low estimate) 200 square feet of surface area with 5500# pressing on every square inch that is like having 28,800 of those 1/2 ton trucks pressing on the sub or over 158 MILLION pounds of force, you can evidently only load and unload 158 million pounds on the tiny sub before it gives up, based on testimony of previous "explorers" the thing would snap crackle and pop all the way down and back up so it should have been clear it was degrading with the cycles and was no doubt going to fail. As for what happened to the people inside they were crushed like a fly with a sledge hammer, whatever bits and pieces they have found of them are only going to be identified by DNA testing.


The 158 millions lbs you note is engineering wise irrelevant, and I will leave it at that.


"When one’s appeal is emotional, it does not matter if there is no substance."
Re: Any Updates on Missing Titanic Submarine and Rescue ? [Re: jcc] #3155380
06/29/23 06:54 PM
06/29/23 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by HotRodDave
Originally Posted by jcc
Originally Posted by 360view
I have read that the composite shell was 5 inches thick but in the pictures the broken edges look more like ‘eggshells’ at first glance.

If the center section had been all titanium what would have been the added cost, is a thought.
Divide that cost by five passengers.
Compare to vacation voyage price per paying passenger.
Compare to passenger net worth in $.


The pictures you saw IMO are akin to seeing the body sheet metal after the wreck of a NASACR stocker, ie they were only the cosmetic outer shell, not the structure.

I read the original design called for a 7" thick pressure vessel, but they reduced it to 6". Properly manufactured 96" diameter cylinder shaped CF will handle 6K psi all day long, but cyclical fatigue life with that loading is above my pay grade. I don't know how low temperature might under rate it, and I have no idea what safety factor is at play. The most problematic aspect is the proper connection/retention of the CF with the needed Titanium hard points in the design and the likely source that initiated the fatal failure.

The CF material choice was likely a huge initial cost savings in material and fabrication, and a weight savings vs Titanium.



The white pieces you see in the salvage parts and in pictures of the sub before the dive are just a nice looking façade and have nothing to do with the carbon fiber tube holding the pressure... I have not seen any carbon fiber pieces in the recovered pics likely because it shattered and mostly floated off in the current. That brings us to why he chose CF instead of Fe or Ti, it could float with the air trapped inside where Ti and Fe would not float and would need propulsion capable of bringing it back up or 2.5 mile cable. This is why he thought he could not die, his theory was that the ballast that made it sink was supported by ropes that would dissolve in the sea water after a day or so and they would float back up and be found and rescued within the 5 days before the oxygen ran out. Some people are slamming him for using a cheap Ti and plexiglass end cap saying those likely were what failed (at least before the pics showed up of the parts) but in the pictures of recovered parts those appear to be totally intact. Some people seem to want the carbon fiber failure to have not been the cause because it is "new" and cool but from what I have seen they most likely caused the failure of the sub. Sometimes old and proven technology just doesn't need to be replaced. The CF evidently could not handle the cold and enormous load cycling, 5500 PSI is like having a modern 1/2 ton 4x4 4 door truck pressing on one square inch of the sub, if it had (just ball parking and probably a low estimate) 200 square feet of surface area with 5500# pressing on every square inch that is like having 28,800 of those 1/2 ton trucks pressing on the sub or over 158 MILLION pounds of force, you can evidently only load and unload 158 million pounds on the tiny sub before it gives up, based on testimony of previous "explorers" the thing would snap crackle and pop all the way down and back up so it should have been clear it was degrading with the cycles and was no doubt going to fail. As for what happened to the people inside they were crushed like a fly with a sledge hammer, whatever bits and pieces they have found of them are only going to be identified by DNA testing.


The 158 millions lbs you note is engineering wise irrelevant, and I will leave it at that.


Might be, but the fly being squished by the sludge hammer is a petty realistic vision. As I understand it, they believe the sub wasn't even 1/2 way down when it imploded. Picture, if you will, that squashed fly, now drifting 1/2 the distance towards the bottom of the ocean floor. Just how much would you expect to see still together as it passed through the drifting currents and past all the consistently eating sea creatures. Then supposedly, they think they can see human remains (parts of the squished fly) on the ocean floor? I'll be watching to see what human remains they think they are seeing at the bottom.

I think the media is trying really hard to distract the people from things going on that are actually important. They are telling you that can find traces of 5 humans on the ocean floor, but they can't find millions of missing and exploited children every day. Their focus it on the wrong things, and it isn't be accident.

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