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Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: TheOtherDodge] #3171363
08/29/23 02:07 PM
08/29/23 02:07 PM
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The diagram I posted above includes the tensioner. I don't know why that pic posted sideways, but the tensioner would be at the bottom of the diagram I posted (as viewed above).

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: Fat_Mike] #3171370
08/29/23 02:23 PM
08/29/23 02:23 PM
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Like this.

2010-01-30_162620_318_belt_routing-70707316.gif
Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: NITROUSN] #3171382
08/29/23 02:55 PM
08/29/23 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Like this.


I meant they will probably need to be a tensioner between the crank and PS and not so sure how easy it would be to fab it.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: TheOtherDodge] #3171390
08/29/23 03:31 PM
08/29/23 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TheOtherDodge
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Like this.


I meant they will probably need to be a tensioner between the crank and PS and not so sure how easy it would be to fab it.
You cant run two tensioners. . Are you running a/c? Simple test would be to buy a belt and see how it acts. There might be enough tension on the belt with the one stock tensioner.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: NITROUSN] #3171430
08/29/23 05:30 PM
08/29/23 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by TheOtherDodge
Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Like this.


I meant they will probably need to be a tensioner between the crank and PS and not so sure how easy it would be to fab it.
You cant run two tensioners. . Are you running a/c? Simple test would be to buy a belt and see how it acts. There might be enough tension on the belt with the one stock tensioner.


Not necessarily another tensioner.... Another idler pulley. I tried the AC bypass belt and it throws without an idler pulley on it. To much movement on the belt at 6,200 rpms. And I don't want to get the pump, install it and then find out it wont work without some sort of idler pulley. I was hoping someone had done this already for "proof of concept".

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: TheOtherDodge] #3171438
08/29/23 06:07 PM
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If you are throwing a belt you have something not right. The non a/c configuration is just fine with its one idler and tensioner.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: NITROUSN] #3171472
08/29/23 08:00 PM
08/29/23 08:00 PM
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I suspect he is throwing the belt at high rpm because the "wrap" around the power steering pump is not enough, and the space between the two remaining pullies is too long, once you eliminate the trip the belt takes around the water pump. In belt speak, its a long way from the crank pulley to the power steering pulley, and then once you get there you are loosing almost 1/2 the amount of space the belt is riding around that PS pump pulley. The PS pump probably has a pretty big load on it, and then you are going either to the AC pump (another high drag belt driven device) or you traveling all the long free span to the alt. The belt doesn't stand much of a chance. There is too much space between the high draw PS pump and the crank and too much space from the PS pump to the high draw AC or Alt. That space is allowing the belt to flex enough to jump the small ridge that keeps it on the pullies. Once the belt climbs the outer ridge, the tensioner will relieve enough pressure to allow the belt to continue to walk off the pulley, once that belt gets past 1/2 the width of the pulley, its gone, and the tensioner is helping it leave. .

You either need to go back to the V belt two belt system with one belt driving the PS pump and the other driving the AC & alt, or the Alt and an idler/tensioner. Or you need to add an idler to replace the water pump (close to the location of the water pump) with the serpentine belt system.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: poorboy] #3171473
08/29/23 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
I suspect he is throwing the belt at high rpm because the "wrap" around the power steering pump is not enough, and the space between the two remaining pullies is too long, once you eliminate the trip the belt takes around the water pump. In belt speak, its a long way from the crank pulley to the power steering pulley, and then once you get there you are loosing almost 1/2 the amount of space the belt is riding around that PS pump pulley. The PS pump probably has a pretty big load on it, and then you are going either to the AC pump (another high drag belt driven device) or you traveling all the long free span to the alt. The belt doesn't stand much of a chance. There is too much space between the high draw PS pump and the crank and too much space from the PS pump to the high draw AC or Alt. That space is allowing the belt to flex enough to jump the small ridge that keeps it on the pullies. Once the belt climbs the outer ridge, the tensioner will relieve enough pressure to allow the belt to continue to walk off the pulley, once that belt gets past 1/2 the width of the pulley, its gone, and the tensioner is helping it leave. .

You either need to go back to the V belt two belt system with one belt driving the PS pump and the other driving the AC & alt, or the Alt and an idler/tensioner. Or you need to add an idler to replace the water pump (close to the location of the water pump) with the serpentine belt system.


The way I read it he is trying a shorter belt without the a/c and possibly no idler. If he runs it like the diagram I posted shows he should have no problem. Unless he has the wrong belt.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: NITROUSN] #3171496
08/29/23 09:23 PM
08/29/23 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Originally Posted by poorboy
I suspect he is throwing the belt at high rpm because the "wrap" around the power steering pump is not enough, and the space between the two remaining pullies is too long, once you eliminate the trip the belt takes around the water pump. In belt speak, its a long way from the crank pulley to the power steering pulley, and then once you get there you are loosing almost 1/2 the amount of space the belt is riding around that PS pump pulley. The PS pump probably has a pretty big load on it, and then you are going either to the AC pump (another high drag belt driven device) or you traveling all the long free span to the alt. The belt doesn't stand much of a chance. There is too much space between the high draw PS pump and the crank and too much space from the PS pump to the high draw AC or Alt. That space is allowing the belt to flex enough to jump the small ridge that keeps it on the pullies. Once the belt climbs the outer ridge, the tensioner will relieve enough pressure to allow the belt to continue to walk off the pulley, once that belt gets past 1/2 the width of the pulley, its gone, and the tensioner is helping it leave. .

You either need to go back to the V belt two belt system with one belt driving the PS pump and the other driving the AC & alt, or the Alt and an idler/tensioner. Or you need to add an idler to replace the water pump (close to the location of the water pump) with the serpentine belt system.


The way I read it he is trying a shorter belt without the a/c and possibly no idler. If he runs it like the diagram I posted shows he should have no problem. Unless he has the wrong belt.


The way I read it is he wants to eliminate where the belt passes around the water pump and have the belt go directly from the crank pulley to the power steering pump, then to the AC, the tension pulley, then the alt and back to the crank. The shorter non-ac belt allowed him to bypass the water pump pulley and still run the AC, the alt, and the tensioner, but he keeps throwing the short belt at 6280 rpm. The electric water pump is not belt driven, and he does not want to put an idler pulley in place to replace the water pump pulley.

Guess we all need to have the same understanding to be able to help him.

Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: poorboy] #3171684
08/30/23 03:19 PM
08/30/23 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by poorboy
The way I read it is he wants to eliminate where the belt passes around the water pump and have the belt go directly from the crank pulley to the power steering pump, then to the AC, the tension pulley, then the alt and back to the crank. The shorter non-ac belt allowed him to bypass the water pump pulley and still run the AC, the alt, and the tensioner, but he keeps throwing the short belt at 6280 rpm. The electric water pump is not belt driven, and he does not want to put an idler pulley in place to replace the water pump pulley.

Guess we all need to have the same understanding to be able to help him.


This is for my turbo set up that turns 6,200 - 6,400 rpms. This is what I want: to eliminate where the belt passes around the water pump and have the belt go directly from the crank pulley to the power steering pump, then to the AC, the tension pulley, then the alt and back to the crank.

By bypassing the WP, there will be partial wrap around the PS and crank with the belt having a long span with no device/idler pulley. As straight of alignment as you can possibly get, I believe this will still cause a belt to throw. I will see if I can put an idler pulley some where near the water pump as shown below.


1.jpg
Last edited by TheOtherDodge; 08/30/23 03:22 PM.
Re: electric water pump on magnum motor - belt routing [Re: TheOtherDodge] #3171718
08/30/23 05:33 PM
08/30/23 05:33 PM
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Grand Prairie,Texas
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My experience with belts getting thrown is that it happens when you back off the throttle and the pressure is some what off the belt. Causing a kind of loop that flips the belt off.

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