Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3129404
03/14/23 05:17 PM
03/14/23 05:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
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Washington
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Unless there is an electronic “box” that’s providing some sort of “curve”, everyone running a crank trigger has the timing locked out. So? Does that mean it’s what the engine really wants? I doubt it, as most engines I know want a curve of some sort. Why? Drag race? I've never had a drag race engine run at anywhere below 5000, after the hit, unless it was on the stop for .90 racing for a few seconds. Most of the time, they are well above 3k before the hit. Unless it's a street driven, foot brake non-two stepped or Heavy Eliminator deal, I don't know anyone else who would spend any amount of time below 3K. Now I do know people who need to use timing retard for any number of reasons at different places on the race track. So I are saying an engine doesn’t need a timing curve as long as the RPM is 5000-9000k? I don’t see it that way.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: madscientist]
#3129441
03/14/23 06:48 PM
03/14/23 06:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331
Fulton County, PA
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Unless there is an electronic “box” that’s providing some sort of “curve”, everyone running a crank trigger has the timing locked out. So? Does that mean it’s what the engine really wants? I doubt it, as most engines I know want a curve of some sort. Why? Drag race? I've never had a drag race engine run at anywhere below 5000, after the hit, unless it was on the stop for .90 racing for a few seconds. Most of the time, they are well above 3k before the hit. Unless it's a street driven, foot brake non-two stepped or Heavy Eliminator deal, I don't know anyone else who would spend any amount of time below 3K. Now I do know people who need to use timing retard for any number of reasons at different places on the race track. So I are saying an engine doesn’t need a timing curve as long as the RPM is 5000-9000k? I don’t see it that way. Why would it? Why not baseline it at max timing and control any desired retard from there electronically according to when and why it is desired? That's what most people are doing. Pulling power out of it is the only reason to pull timing on a race situation. Taking the ignition trigger out of the distributor and putting it on the crank is always better. If you can't do that, a locked distributor is the next best option. Although, you will still have timing chain slack, cam twist, gear clearance, oil pump load, etc., causing some degree of scatter to deal with.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3129443
03/14/23 06:58 PM
03/14/23 06:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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Ok. I won’t lock one out. The OP is NA, and he didn’t say he’s running 9k. Lock out whatever you want. But the laws of Physics that govern combustion chamber dynamics doesn’t change.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: dvw]
#3129707
03/15/23 05:24 PM
03/15/23 05:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,748 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,748
Bend,OR USA
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Some ECU won't fire the coil until the starting of the third crankshaft revolution I've been told Any motor I have had that had 19 BTDC timing or more at idle or start up would kick back against the starter, even broke the nose off of one starter when it kick back against it
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/15/23 05:25 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: mopar dave]
#3129738
03/15/23 08:09 PM
03/15/23 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331
Fulton County, PA
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I have heard of the circle track guys running a curve. They say the cars pull harder out of the corners, but i dont think we are talking circle track stuff here. Buddy of mine has an engine shop, does a lot of late model dirt stuff, as well as drag and resto. Good stuff. I'm going to have to call him tomorrow and see what he does now.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: CMcAllister]
#3129744
03/15/23 08:42 PM
03/15/23 08:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
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master
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Washington
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I have heard of the circle track guys running a curve. They say the cars pull harder out of the corners, but i dont think we are talking circle track stuff here. Buddy of mine has an engine shop, does a lot of late model dirt stuff, as well as drag and resto. Good stuff. I'm going to have to call him tomorrow and see what he does now. That would be awesome. I’d love to hear what he does.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: mopar dave]
#3129782
03/15/23 11:54 PM
03/15/23 11:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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William Baldwin at Baldwin carbs is who i'm speaking of. He has a distributor machine for dialing the curve in. He’s the guy that called me out for locking out distributors on this very forum. I was so wrong (and he was so right) I went and bought a distributor machine so I can test this stuff and set up a proper curve.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: madscientist]
#3130154
03/17/23 02:27 PM
03/17/23 02:27 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,331
Fulton County, PA
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Talked to my engine guy this AM. Legit shop. Do a lot of engines.
Everything he does gets a crank trigger. If the rules don't allow it, distributor is locked. None of "that springs and weights stuff" for many years.
Drag race uses ignition, Grid, whatever for retard, if needed for tire management, nitrous, etc..
Dirt uses crank trigger locked with no gadgets. Some of them will also use a locked distributor with a pickup to run a separate system (box, coil) set up at 4 or 5 degrees retarded they can switch to for when the track slicks up. Or they will slip a restrictor under the carb to take some power out of it before they go out.
That's all I'm saying.
Last edited by CMcAllister; 03/17/23 02:28 PM.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Drag race MSD distributor locked or not?
[Re: Moparrob68]
#3130171
03/17/23 03:26 PM
03/17/23 03:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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Locked is a safe position: fewer variables. However: consider coming off the trailer, pit driving, and return road. If you have a high stall converter, you're (probably) safe. With tall ratio MT cars, forgetting to slip the clutch that one time, followed by low RPM part-throttle acceleration, will rattle badly.
Boffin Emeritus
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