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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: I go fast]
#312457
05/25/09 08:26 PM
05/25/09 08:26 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
So now,after all the pro's and con's about distributor phasing,can "ANYONE" show me a actual dyno comparison of each?There are a lot of quote:"I can tell the difference,my car runs better, etc",you can convince yourself of anything if you think about it long enough.Unless you have an actual comparison it is still speculation.Make a believer out of me ,show me actual results on paper,not guessing,speculation or theory.I've been wrong many times,one more won't hurt if I am.You can even throw stones if you wish.  
sorry, i don't have any dyno sheets handy to "prove" that improper rotor phasing can keep an engine from performing to its full potential. by the same token, i am able to tell if an engine is running properly or not though. it's not as though every distributor is out of phase, but i've sure seen a lot of them over the years that are. my word is all i've got here. i offer no apology if that's not good enough. perhaps try checking your own and see how it works for you.
Last edited by DRAM_Perf_Only; 05/25/09 08:28 PM.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: MO_PA]
#312459
05/25/09 10:22 PM
05/25/09 10:22 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
In the 54 years of my being around Chrysler cars I have encountered many, many crappy running engines, some barely running!
I learned early on to first check for correct intermediate shaft installation, many are wrong. Install the intermediate shaft correctly to put the dist in phase and it's a done deal time and time again. Some people will argue but I continue doing what I know works!
This is nothing but absolute nonsense. You can toss the shaft, and the dist in any old way you want, and plug no1 wire in where ever the rotor points with no1 up ready to fire, and the engine will run just fine.
YOU CAN NOT CHANGE dist cap phasing by changing anything OUTSIDE of the distributor, including the cam timeing, the slop in the chain, the cam drive advance / retard if present, how the cam is degreed, or the dist. timing itself. NONE OF THIS changes rotor phase in older vehicles with conventional distributors.
This is one reason I get so damn rude sometimes. There are people who know of what they speak, and others who run the sheeple off the cliff. If you cannot prove what is going on here, then so far's I'm concerned, you don't know for sure.
I've looked at ONE HELL of a lot of dist. caps over the years. A LOT. All this talk about "most" dist's needing "phasing." I still say this: WHERE IS THE PROOF? I've looked at many, many MANY caps and rotors, and if they were very far out of phase, you could SEE IT because of the CARBON TRACKING, the COPPER TRACKING or the ALUMINUM TRACKING or whatever else contacts are made of.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
#312460
05/25/09 10:28 PM
05/25/09 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,793
Big Sky Country
MO_PA
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,793
Big Sky Country
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Quote:
Some people will argue but I continue doing what I know works!
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
#312461
05/25/09 10:41 PM
05/25/09 10:41 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I've looked at ONE HELL of a lot of dist. caps over the years. A LOT. All this talk about "most" dist's needing "phasing." I still say this: WHERE IS THE PROOF? I've looked at many, many MANY caps and rotors, and if they were very far out of phase, you could SEE IT because of the CARBON TRACKING, the COPPER TRACKING or the ALUMINUM TRACKING or whatever else contacts are made of.
well, i guess that makes you the foremost authority. you've also made it abundantly clear where you stand on the issue. we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
i didn't use the term "most", but i've seen many over the years that needed phasing. the results i've seen after getting the phasing correct was less frequent tune-ups, improved performance and improved fuel economy.
you've already made your mind up that all mopar distributors are just fine, so you just keep on believing that and i'll just keep on believing that some are not, okay  besides, no amount of proof would ever convince you otherwise.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: RapidRobert]
#312466
05/26/09 06:07 AM
05/26/09 06:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
USA
540DUSTER
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 531
USA
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engine fires every 90 degrees of crank rotation.The cam moves at half the speed of the crank.One half of 90 = 45,which is the amount the rotor moves.So the distance between terminals in the cap are spaced every 45 degrees.If your timing is locked at 36,think how critical it is to have the rotor in the right place.36 degrees at crank is 18 degrees of rotor rotation;which is almost halfway between terminals.So where is the spark going to jump to if the rotor is  halfway between trrminals?And if you have vacuum advance the rotor is moving 28 degrees and that is over halfway the distance between terminals.
Last edited by 540DUSTER; 05/26/09 02:45 PM.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: 540DUSTER]
#312467
05/26/09 11:11 AM
05/26/09 11:11 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I got this marvelous PM form TommQuad who has now decided that he simply doesn't like someone questioning his authority
He says:::
====================================================
you need to go away, your ignorance and insolence are interfering with the exchange of intelligent information. Some of us have cars with lot's of time and money spent on them and the cars are wickedly fast. You for sure do not have such machines unless you paid for it with a check book. I guarantee whatever pos you have it would never pass my scrutiny.
Please refrain from posting on the thread.
I can't begin to tell you how people like you ruin good things for everyone else.
==================================================
Nothing has changed
It's very possible that in my day I've been "into" a lot more distributors--not necessarily Mopar--than you've ever seen
Cap tracking is a VERY good indication of whether rotor phasing is very far off
You sir have offered NOTHING in the way of proof for your wild claims that "most" of these cars are way way off
You have no dyno numbers
You have no lab results which gather up various aspects of spark rise time, intensity, trailing edge decay, or spark power or voltage, measured in horsepower, joules, ca-hoonies or cubits
You have no actual graphic or pictorial findings that support what you claim.
And now, since you cannot prove what you say, you are calling me names, making fun of my perceived lack of education, and making demands --along with other name calling--through the PM system.
I am not ignorant. I understand completely what rotor phasing "is." So far you have offered up nothing other than "your engine runs better" in the way of "proof" of this horrid, widespread, incredibly awful situation "we" are in.
The thing some of you one here don't seem to realise is this:
The camshaft timing, the chain slack, the intermediate shaft, nothing outside of the dist has anything to do with rotor phase UNLESS WE CHANGE THE ARGUEMENT to a crank trigger
Additionally, THERE MUST BE by design some change in phasing to accomodate the vacuum advance. So long as the leading corner of the rotor aligns with the leading corner of the cap contact, and the same true on the trailing edge, that IS the best you'll do unless you decide to weld the vacuum advance plate solid.
One last note. I already warned you about personal attacks on my personality, my education, or any other subject. Now you have chosen the "secret" method of PM's. If you continue this personal assault, I will post every single PM that you send me here
If you can prove this with math, with timeslips, with mpg or dyno results, have at it. If you can show me an overpowering pile of distributor caps with carbon tracks which indicate the problem, give it a try.
Otherwise, what you are saying is nothing but conjecture and claims.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: sogtx]
#312469
05/26/09 12:52 PM
05/26/09 12:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Almost, South Dakota
BEELINE
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Almost, South Dakota
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Quote:
Uh Oh Better call FBO  hell sell you a phased distibutor that has been sanblasted to look new and then be a jerk ( thats a whole differnet story ) .. .but he says that phasing is important ...4secondsflat.com or something
Tom Quad is very anal about his engines, sometimes maybe too anal
but why spend all that money on msd and firewires and not be concerned about phasing .. even if it helps fractionally what do you have to lose ?
read the MSD installation book .. they must be idiots ...
http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/...f?terms=phasing
I've talked to FBO before and kinda got the "Do as I say and buy only my parts" feeling also. Plus I know a local guy who spent a couple grand on his parts over the winter and didn't gain even a half a tenth. 
But I have to agree, even if you only gain a fraction it all adds up in the end.
Every little bit helps. Thats why the stock eliminater guys optimise everthing and a big reason they run like they do.
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: BEELINE]
#312470
05/26/09 01:04 PM
05/26/09 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,188
upstate western ny
sogtx
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,188
upstate western ny
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Quote:
Quote:
Uh Oh Better call FBO hell sell you a phased distibutor that has been sanblasted to look new and then be a jerk ( thats a whole differnet story ) .. .but he says that phasing is important ...4secondsflat.com or something
Tom Quad is very anal about his engines, sometimes maybe too anal
but why spend all that money on msd and firewires and not be concerned about phasing .. even if it helps fractionally what do you have to lose ?
read the MSD installation book .. they must be idiots ...
http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/...f?terms=phasing
I've talked to FBO before and kinda got the "Do as I say and buy only my parts" feeling also. Plus I know a local guy who spent a couple grand on his parts over the winter and didn't gain even a half a tenth.
But I have to agree, even if you only gain a fraction it all adds up in the end.
Every little bit helps. Thats why the stock eliminater guys optimise everthing and a big reason they run like they do.
amen
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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea
[Re: BEELINE]
#312471
05/26/09 02:05 PM
05/26/09 02:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Almost, South Dakota
BEELINE
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Almost, South Dakota
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Quote:
Quote:
Uh Oh Better call FBO hell sell you a phased distibutor that has been sanblasted to look new and then be a jerk ( thats a whole differnet story ) .. .but he says that phasing is important ...4secondsflat.com or something
Tom Quad is very anal about his engines, sometimes maybe too anal
but why spend all that money on msd and firewires and not be concerned about phasing .. even if it helps fractionally what do you have to lose ?
read the MSD installation book .. they must be idiots ...
http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/...f?terms=phasing
I've talked to FBO before and kinda got the "Do as I say and buy only my parts" feeling also. Plus I know a local guy who spent a couple grand on his parts over the winter and didn't gain even a half a tenth.
But I have to agree, even if you only gain a fraction it all adds up in the end.
Every little bit helps. Thats why the stock eliminater guys optimise everthing and a big reason they run like they do.
If I may I will ad some more. My 383 Coronet that I drag race ran a best of 12.98 @ 101 mph last fall. For what it is I was proud to get it in the 12s as that was my goal last year. Thinking about it over the winter I felt that there was some more to be gained at the top end as it didn't stumble but seamed like it was governing out. I was running a stock canister fuel filter and just a Carter mechanical pump with 3/8s fuel line. This spring I bought a $20 Carter electric pump at a swap meet and a high flow screen type filter and the first weekend out I ran a 12.88 @ 103.81 mph. The weather conditions where the same as last fall and everything else on the car was the same also and I could feal that it was pulling harder thru the traps.
All this being said, I gained a solid tenth and a couple mph. And, as my ignition seems to be fine I am going to check my distributor phasing and correct it if neccesary and if I gain another tenth then it will be well worth it. For me bracket racing sucks but it does give track time to always try to go faster.
Every little bit helps.
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