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Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: BDW] #312395 05/10/09 06:34 AM 05/10/09 06:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 531 Virginia J JimG mopar
JimG mopar J Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 531 Virginia	Quote: Good explanation, what do you do to adjust an electronic distributor if needed? If filing is not enough. You convince AndyF to make some more of those cool adjustable reluctors! Seriously, I don't know - that's why I fixed mine the ghetto way by "moving" the locating tab. Perhaps someone else will elaborate. Jim

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: JimG] #312396 05/10/09 07:09 AM 05/10/09 07:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	I still have one of Andys reluctors but after that I want to either redrill one on a drill press or look at altering the rotor/shaft groove/tang to shift the rotor or possibly rotating the flat plate on the inside by widening the groove the locating pin sets it at & widening the 2 holes on the housing outside where the 2 screws secure/locate the plate & seeing how(if) that affects the mounting of the vac adv. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: RapidRobert] #312397 05/10/09 07:31 AM 05/10/09 07:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT M moper I Live Here
moper I Live Here M Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT	It's always a good idea to pay close attention to things. I've also found issues like this on MSD billets. Reading those spark marks ont eh terminals is the easiest way. On the MSD, I filed away some of the alignment pins on the rotor to positin it to be centered on the cap terminal when it should be. I dont believe it is near as common as stated. But when it's bad enough to cause a problem, it needs to be corrected. Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312398 05/10/09 08:17 AM 05/10/09 08:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,257 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,257 Oregon	Here is a hole in the cap and the rotor is shown pointing at #1 cylinder when ready to fire. The Jesel distributor is easy to phase since you can rotate the entire housing without changing the ignition timing. 5219758-rotor.jpg (539 downloads)

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: AndyF] #312399 05/10/09 08:36 AM 05/10/09 08:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT M moper I Live Here
moper I Live Here M Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT	Show-off... Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: moper] #312400 05/10/09 10:13 AM 05/10/09 10:13 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad OP top fuel
ThermoQuad OP top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild	Alignment can be also be done on the bench using an old cap with holes drilled in it. Line up the reluctor with the pickup and look thru the spark plug wire hole to see if the alignment is correct Or align rotor with spark plug hole, remove cap and check reluctor to pick up alignment The vac adv plays an important part in where the "zero" position of the pickup ends up. Many times shimming the vac adv away from the housing quickly corrects any offset. You can also shorten the length of the arm on the vac adv as well if you are creative enough. Typically you will need to space the canister away from the dist body or shorten the arm length to correct any misalignments. Again I will emphasize how much better any car runs with a phased distributor. The pic shows the typical misalignment 5219994-Picture351.jpg (772 downloads)

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312401 05/10/09 10:24 AM 05/10/09 10:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,119 Valencia, España NachoRT74 master
NachoRT74 master Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 6,119 Valencia, España	ok, so if I get an original new piece ( in My case MP distributor ) and using the right reluctor position ( already come from factory assemblied on the right phase location ) STILL there is not guarantee the dist is phased ? With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: moper] #312402 05/10/09 11:41 AM 05/10/09 11:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan MNobody master
MNobody master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,884 Michigan	Ok i have a MSD mechanical distributor, if i center the reluctor on the pickup the rotor should should be aligned with the terminal in the cap correct? Does the timing have to be set at zero to to this or does initial advance not affect this procedure? Thanks.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: NachoRT74] #312403 05/10/09 12:45 PM 05/10/09 12:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: STILL there is not guarantee the dist is phased ? Correct. Due to(possible) stackup of tolerences AND different(from stock) amts of advance. The rotor is going to be moving thru an arc of a certain amt of degrees back & forth due to mech/vac adv & you want that range of motion to be centered as much as possible on the center of the metal terminal inside the cap or at least not so far off that it cant jump the large gap & misfires & I like to extend the rotor tip & narrow it w solder so all(most anyhow) of the air gap is at the spark plug where it does it's purpose(igniting the mixture) as opposed to just wasting energy jumping a gap. EDIT drill the large hole in the flat of the cap as described,run it up to speed & w your light see how close it is to the center of the terminal & on which side of it & at that point you will have max adv(mech & vac)(& note that any LESS amt of adv will move the tip more CW(BB) & CCW (SB) Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/10/09 01:11 PM.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: NachoRT74] #312404 05/10/09 03:47 PM 05/10/09 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad OP top fuel
ThermoQuad OP top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild	There are no guarantees it is correct even with the newer style MP distributors or any distributor. It is something that should be checked and corrected if necessary. I did check a recently manufactured Mopar Perf distributor[new style adv adj] and it was spot on, so sometimes the tolerances stack the right way.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312405 05/10/09 09:07 PM 05/10/09 09:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,637 Western Michigan 68Fastback master
68Fastback master Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,637 Western Michigan	Quote: Alignment can be also be done on the bench using an old cap with holes drilled in it. Line up the reluctor with the pickup and look thru the spark plug wire hole to see if the alignment is correct Or align rotor with spark plug hole, remove cap and check reluctor to pick up alignment The vac adv plays an important part in where the "zero" position of the pickup ends up. Many times shimming the vac adv away from the housing quickly corrects any offset. You can also shorten the length of the arm on the vac adv as well if you are creative enough. Typically you will need to space the canister away from the dist body or shorten the arm length to correct any misalignments. Again I will emphasize how much better any car runs with a phased distributor. The pic shows the typical misalignment Tom looks like you have the distributor in a vise, I see the misalignment on the reluctor but I am lost from there, can you please explain what I should be seeing.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: 68Fastback] #312406 05/11/09 05:42 AM 05/11/09 05:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad OP top fuel
ThermoQuad OP top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,482 Answering the call of the wild	The rotor was aligned with the terminal on the cap and this is the misalignment at the pick up/reluctor This is the pic of the test fixture 5221619-phasingcap.jpg (548 downloads)

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312407 05/11/09 06:41 AM 05/11/09 06:41 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 2,414 St. Croix, US Virgin Islands D David_in_St_Croi top fuel
David_in_St_Croi top fuel D Joined: May 2003 Posts: 2,414 St. Croix, US Virgin Islands	The reluctor in our MP distributor already had two grooves machined in it from the factory. DRAM explained to me how to check the phasing, using the hole in cap and timing light trick. It was definitely off on the 383 in our RR. I had removed it to change the pickup coil. I then switched the reluctor to the other slot and it was spot on and the car definitely runs smoother now. The difference was clear, both visually using the timing light and how well the car ran. It was not hard to do, you just need an old distributor cap to sacrifice. It explained the wear on one side of the terminal inside the old distributor cap, instead of the nice even wear shown in the first post. If you have a MP distributor pull the rotor and look carefully, to see if it has two grooves. If the phasing is off try the other slot before doing anything more elaborate, you might get lucky. https://www.facebook.com/THENEWCDRA Proud member of the liberal scientific elite

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312408 05/11/09 07:36 AM 05/11/09 07:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,493 the boonies aarcuda I Live Here
aarcuda I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 15,493 the boonies	Quote: Alignment can be also be done on the bench using an old cap with holes drilled in it. Line up the reluctor with the pickup and look thru the spark plug wire hole to see if the alignment is correct Or align rotor with spark plug hole, remove cap and check reluctor to pick up alignment The vac adv plays an important part in where the "zero" position of the pickup ends up. Many times shimming the vac adv away from the housing quickly corrects any offset. You can also shorten the length of the arm on the vac adv as well if you are creative enough. Typically you will need to space the canister away from the dist body or shorten the arm length to correct any misalignments. Again I will emphasize how much better any car runs with a phased distributor. The pic shows the typical misalignment let me ask- this picture shows a misalignment at idle. but, when the distributor starts advancing, the pickup will move counterclockwise and brign the misalignment back into alignment, won't it? so the net effect would be proper rotor phasing at higher rpm where its more important.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: ThermoQuad] #312409 05/11/09 09:50 AM 05/11/09 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN R Rug_Trucker I Live Here
Rug_Trucker I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 14,610 Not2farfromNashville, TN	I couldn't make heads or tails of this at 4am......sounds interesting! "The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" "NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: aarcuda] #312410 05/11/09 09:51 AM 05/11/09 09:51 AM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	Not only that, but a lot of you are using a seperate "sacrificial" cap to check the alignment. How do you know this cap has the terminals and sits on the distributor the same way as the cap that you run with?! When phasing a street car do you split the difference between idle and full advance, optimize it at full advance or optimize it at idle?

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: aarcuda] #312411 05/11/09 10:03 AM 05/11/09 10:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT C CJK440 master
CJK440 master C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT	Quote: Quote: Alignment can be also be done on the bench using an old cap with holes drilled in it. Line up the reluctor with the pickup and look thru the spark plug wire hole to see if the alignment is correct Or align rotor with spark plug hole, remove cap and check reluctor to pick up alignment The vac adv plays an important part in where the "zero" position of the pickup ends up. Many times shimming the vac adv away from the housing quickly corrects any offset. You can also shorten the length of the arm on the vac adv as well if you are creative enough. Typically you will need to space the canister away from the dist body or shorten the arm length to correct any misalignments. Again I will emphasize how much better any car runs with a phased distributor. The pic shows the typical misalignment let me ask- this picture shows a misalignment at idle. but, when the distributor starts advancing, the pickup will move counterclockwise and brign the misalignment back into alignment, won't it? so the net effect would be proper rotor phasing at higher rpm where its more important. Once the rotor/terminal & reluctor tooth/pickup is phased it is not affected by mechanical or initial changes. The relationship between the relutctor and rotor is fixed and the position of the pickup to the terminal is fixed also. Only when the vacuum advance comes in will it go out of whack because the pickup now moved in relation to the cap terminal. If your not running vac advance just shoot for dead on but with vacuum advance perhaps you want to adjust it so that the rotor is equidistant from the terminal a zero vacuum to max advance???? 2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea #312412 05/11/09 10:10 AM 05/11/09 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT C CJK440 master
CJK440 master C Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,982 Ansonia, CT	Quote: Not only that, but a lot of you are using a seperate "sacrificial" cap to check the alignment. How do you know this cap has the terminals and sits on the distributor the same way as the cap that you run with?! I don't think its that critical. Due to the width of the terminal and rotor tip, there is a certain "zone" of overlap where it performs the same within a certain range. One thing I am not sure of is the difference between bench phasing and using a timing light. Bench phasing seems much easier but is there any sort of "lag time" that comes into play which makes the timing light a more definative test??? 2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: David_in_St_Croi] #312413 05/11/09 10:19 AM 05/11/09 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana F Fury Fan master
Fury Fan master F Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana	Quote: The reluctor in our MP distributor already had two grooves machined in it from the factory. DRAM explained to me how to check the phasing, using the hole in cap and timing light trick. It was definitely off on the 383 in our RR. I had removed it to change the pickup coil. I then switched the reluctor to the other slot and it was spot on and the car definitely runs smoother now. The difference was clear, both visually using the timing light and how well the car ran. It was not hard to do, you just need an old distributor cap to sacrifice. It explained the wear on one side of the terminal inside the old distributor cap, instead of the nice even wear shown in the first post. If you have a MP distributor pull the rotor and look carefully, to see if it has two grooves. If the phasing is off try the other slot before doing anything more elaborate, you might get lucky. I had an annoying only-at-idle misfire that completely disappeared when moving the reluctor wheel to the other position. The MP wheel has 2 slots but they are not 180� apart, there's a small offset. Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.

Re: Distributor phasing is a good idea [Re: CJK440] #312414 05/11/09 11:02 AM 05/11/09 11:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	[quote the timing light a more definative test??? No reason not to drill a hole BETWEEN the center and #1 terminals & check it at speed. the hole can stay & is actually better as it lets ionized air escape out of there(The ionized air makes it easier to crossfire) an example would be the space under a tree that would get hit on top by lightning which electrically charges not only the tree but the air space under the branches & everything in that ionized air space gets jolted. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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