Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Brad_Haak] #3097828
11/28/22 03:39 PM
11/28/22 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,495
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
master
Hemi_Joel  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,495
Minnesota
I've used that plastic Summit windage tray. What I like about it is that is has an integral gasket. I didn't think it had enuff louvers, so I made more with a torch and a knife. I have not heard of any dyno testing on the Summit tray, so who knows if it's any good?

A little windage tray trivia: (non-Mopar, so the faint of heart better hit the back button now) By the late 1920's the Duesenberg brothers had 15 years of successful racing experience. Their cars/engines had won the Indy 500 3 times, and they were the only American car manufacturer to ever win the French Grand Prix at Lemans. So they knew what they were doing. Yet I was surprised when I pulled the oil pan off my '29 Duesenberg to find a windage tray. It had a shape formed on one side to gather the oil and send it down thru holes, thru a screen, into the pan. I wonder how long they had been using windage trays, and how much of an advantage it may have given them. Their most successful competitor was Miller, and I don't think that the barrel crankcase of a Miller (like an Offy) would allow for a windage tray. On the off chance that anyone is bored, here is my painfully long and poorly produced video of the oil pan windage tray removal. https://youtu.be/jpIxtB8zfC8

20160902_102225.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3097831
11/28/22 03:45 PM
11/28/22 03:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,038
MN
J
JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,038
MN
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
On the off chance that anyone is bored, here is my painfully long and poorly produced video of the oil pan windage tray removal. https://youtu.be/jpIxtB8zfC8


That video is so old, I'm surprised it's not in Black and White. When will we ever see the oil pan go back on???


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: JERICOGTX] #3097842
11/28/22 04:34 PM
11/28/22 04:34 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,485
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,485
north of coder
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
Originally Posted by Hemi_Joel
On the off chance that anyone is bored, here is my painfully long and poorly produced video of the oil pan windage tray removal. https://youtu.be/jpIxtB8zfC8


That video is so old, I'm surprised it's not in Black and White. When will we ever see the oil pan go back on???



i did grow a "slight" beard watching that video.............. tired biggrin
however, it was interesting, because i have never seen inside one of those engines.
beer

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: JERICOGTX] #3097865
11/28/22 05:57 PM
11/28/22 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX


Those scrapers are nice. To bad I never received the one I ordered a year ago.


Hmm....I ordered one for a 5.00 stroke in 2016, no sign as yet despite repeated emails.


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Tig] #3097907
11/28/22 07:55 PM
11/28/22 07:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
Try making your own, I use a thick piece of single layer cardboard (from a valve cover gasket set) to mock them up as a template, they are easy to cut and fix before transferring it onto the thin sheet metal piece, aluminum or steel, that I will use up wrench scope
I remember hearing from Jason Pettis that a tight-fitting crank scraper on a BB Chevy was worth as much as 30 HP gain at 8000 RPM on an 800 + HP engine that they had to use for those dyno tests they did back in the early 1990s work He also mentioned that it didn't add any power under 6000 RPM at WOT work shruggy
IHTHs luck

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 11/28/22 07:58 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Cab_Burge] #3097918
11/28/22 08:20 PM
11/28/22 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Originally Posted by Cab_Burge
Try making your own

I've thought about it, but I'm $550 in as I sent the money up front for "materials". I'm not sure if I'm being or have been scammed shruggy


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hot 340] #3097947
11/28/22 10:32 PM
11/28/22 10:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
polyspheric Offline
master
polyspheric  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,209
New York
IMHO the tray's vertical position should be as far from the crank's rotation depth as practical (deeper with a deep pan, etc.), but enough above the (resting) oil level so that WOT acceleration & panic braking don't submerge one end of the tray. For 14 second cars this is overkill, but @ 11.0 or less (WAG) you need it.
Vertical baffles in the pan floor can act as dams to remedy sloshing on both ends, remember to add vents at the pan-dam join to allow drainage.

Kevin is really smart, has done lots of work, makes a nice product.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: dvw] #3097949
11/28/22 10:39 PM
11/28/22 10:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
I like the idea of the scraper better than a tray. Sounds like they can be hard to get. I like your design.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: mopar dave] #3097993
11/29/22 05:47 AM
11/29/22 05:47 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
6
68 HEMI GTS Offline
mopar
68 HEMI GTS  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
I’m also using a scraper, and a spacer for the tray and pan. And some drain returns I made for the hemi.


09AA27C5-132D-4CE0-83DF-DE583B1CB225.jpeg
Last edited by 68 HEMI GTS; 11/29/22 05:48 AM.

68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #3098054
11/29/22 11:39 AM
11/29/22 11:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
Where did you get that scraper? I have been watching episodes of engine masters finding power in windage control. They found 8 hp in a windage tray, but found 22hp in a custom Moroso pan. The pan had kick outs close to the rail. The extra power is found over 5500rpm. I would be interested in a scraper for sure, the windage tray i will have to give that more thought as my 572 is not an all out max hp deal.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: mopar dave] #3098067
11/29/22 12:42 PM
11/29/22 12:42 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
6
68 HEMI GTS Offline
mopar
68 HEMI GTS  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Where did you get that scraper? I have been watching episodes of engine masters finding power in windage control. They found 8 hp in a windage tray, but found 22hp in a custom Moroso pan. The pan had kick outs close to the rail. The extra power is found over 5500rpm. I would be interested in a scraper for sure, the windage tray i will have to give that more thought as my 572 is not an all out max hp deal.


http://www.crank-scrapers.com/

This is also the same company people are saying they didn’t get their stuff. I know I ordered mine and it didn’t show up when he said. I called atleast once or maybe twice additionally before I got it.


68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #3098078
11/29/22 01:25 PM
11/29/22 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,074
Shelby Twp. Mi
HardcoreB Offline
master
HardcoreB  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,074
Shelby Twp. Mi
Of all i have seen, I really like the one DVW is using. I think it's A REAL GOOD IDEA on a wet sump application.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: HardcoreB] #3098090
11/29/22 02:07 PM
11/29/22 02:07 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
6
68 HEMI GTS Offline
mopar
68 HEMI GTS  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
Originally Posted by HardcoreB
Of all i have seen, I really like the one DVW is using. I think it's A REAL GOOD IDEA on a wet sump application.


Mine and Doug’s are the same brand.


68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #3098119
11/29/22 03:27 PM
11/29/22 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Tig Offline
master
Tig  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,926
A shed in England
Originally Posted by 68 HEMI GTS
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Where did you get that scraper? I have been watching episodes of engine masters finding power in windage control. They found 8 hp in a windage tray, but found 22hp in a custom Moroso pan. The pan had kick outs close to the rail. The extra power is found over 5500rpm. I would be interested in a scraper for sure, the windage tray i will have to give that more thought as my 572 is not an all out max hp deal.


http://www.crank-scrapers.com/

This is also the same company people are saying they didn’t get their stuff. I know I ordered mine and it didn’t show up when he said. I called atleast once or maybe twice additionally before I got it.


I ordered mine in 2016 whistling I'm regularly in contact via email, sometimes I get a reply, sometimes I don't. I haven't been able to catch him on the phone but have spoke to his wife who said he would return my call..... it didn't happen.


'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Tig] #3098138
11/29/22 04:14 PM
11/29/22 04:14 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
6
68 HEMI GTS Offline
mopar
68 HEMI GTS  Offline
mopar
6

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 511
Temperance, MI
Originally Posted by Tig
Originally Posted by 68 HEMI GTS
Originally Posted by mopar dave
Where did you get that scraper? I have been watching episodes of engine masters finding power in windage control. They found 8 hp in a windage tray, but found 22hp in a custom Moroso pan. The pan had kick outs close to the rail. The extra power is found over 5500rpm. I would be interested in a scraper for sure, the windage tray i will have to give that more thought as my 572 is not an all out max hp deal.


http://www.crank-scrapers.com/

This is also the same company people are saying they didn’t get their stuff. I know I ordered mine and it didn’t show up when he said. I called atleast once or maybe twice additionally before I got it.


I ordered mine in 2016 whistling I'm regularly in contact via email, sometimes I get a reply, sometimes I don't. I haven't been able to catch him on the phone but have spoke to his wife who said he would return my call..... it didn't happen.


That really sucks. It’s a shame someone has a company that can provide an awesome product if they ran their business correctly. Makes me afraid to order anything else from them.


68 Dart GTS "HEMI" 10.30 @ 131 pump gas street car 3780#
69 Roadrunner 511 six pack 10.92 drive to track street car
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: 68 HEMI GTS] #3098164
11/29/22 05:37 PM
11/29/22 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,495
Minnesota
Hemi_Joel Offline
master
Hemi_Joel  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,495
Minnesota
They do have a great product. And the guy knows his stuff and is nice to talk to on the phone, very informative. But slower than a sloth in a coma. I first attempted to contact them in march of 2014 about a 392 hemi with a 5/8 stroker for which he did not have a pattern. By April of 2016, he had sent me a test pattern, I dialed it in on the engine, and sent it back. About April of 2017 I had the scraper. By that time, the engine was apart for the 2nd time, so I final fitted and installed the scraper. Plan WAY ahead!

scraper.jpgscaper.jpgIMG_20170709_142610729_HDR.jpg

[img]http://i.imgur.com/boeexFms.jpg[/img]
31 Plymouth Coupe, 392 Hemi, T56 magnum
RS23J71
RS27J77
RP23J71
RO23J71
WM21J8A
I don't regret the things I've done. I only regret the things I didn't do.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. ~ Plato"
Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hemi_Joel] #3098250
11/30/22 12:20 AM
11/30/22 12:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
Wow, too bad that guy does business like that, because i would buy one right now.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: Hot 340] #3098501
11/30/22 07:56 PM
11/30/22 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 287
So. IL. USA
PLUM BAD Offline
enthusiast
PLUM BAD  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 287
So. IL. USA
My tray is made in the pan. I also use a scraper.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: mopar dave] #3098579
12/01/22 06:55 AM
12/01/22 06:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287
PA
Harry's Taxi 2 Offline
enthusiast
Harry's Taxi 2  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 287
PA
I've used 2 of these.

https://bobmazzoliniracing.com/store/#!/Big-Block-Crank-Scraper/p/81474464/category=4301789


'86 Maple Grove KOS Mopar low qualifier......true street legal with no power adders.

NOS-used when losing since 1940.

Re: Windage Trays...for big blocks [Re: PLUM BAD] #3098611
12/01/22 10:25 AM
12/01/22 10:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
master
mopar dave  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,042
Mt Morris Michigan
That is a very nice pan. What is the cost on a pan like that today?

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1