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Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: PhillyRag] #3090856
10/31/22 10:16 PM
10/31/22 10:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,012
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,012
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by PhillyRag
Originally Posted by TJP
Originally Posted by therocks
Ive had the 4 speed in my 65 since 69.Never heard you have to go to 1st then reverse.I always adjust my clutch so that it goes into reverse with no grinding and neve have ant problems.Clutch in it now is like 20 years old and has been weel beat on.Still goes into R with no problems.have had to adjust it twice in over 20 years


There are a lot of variables that can avert the issue. If you've never ground the reverse gears you are an anomaly, have extremely thick grease, or rotating resistance in the trans. I will try to explain why wink

When the car is is running in neutral with the clutch up, The input shaft is 'locked" to the engine via the clutch assy.
The cluster gear is spinning as it is in constant contact with the input shaft.
But the car is not moving as none of of the output shaft gears are engaged with the cluster gear to transmit the power.

OK hopefully your following along and understanding the above wink
So, one depresses the clutch pedal, that should disengage the input shaft from the engine.
IF their is enough resistance within the transmission, the input shaft and cluster gears will stop spinning allowing any gear to be engaged.
The above resistance is usually caused by thicker gear oil, clearances in the trans itself, bearings that have rotational resistance. or a combination of the 3.

IF there is little to no resistance, the cluster and input gears will continue spinning for a short time.
During this time (gears spinning) If one tries to engage R it will grind until the cluster/ input stop because R is not synchronized.
During this same time if one selects ANY of the forward gears they will stop the cluster and input without grinding as the forward gears are synchronized.
Once the gears are stopped, one can then go into reverse without grinding.

If the gears start spinning again after having been put in a forward gear with the clutch continually depressed, that would indicate that something is dragging on the input shaft causing it and the cluster gear to start spinning again.

If the gears continue to spin for a extended period of time (30 seconds or more shruggy) WITHOUT putting it in a forward gear, that again indicates something is dragging on the input not allowing it to stop.

I am 68 YO and was taught to always do a forward gear before trying to put it in reverse. So it is habit for me. Bit If I forget I will sometimes get a little grind and sometimes not.

hope this explains why one should always select a forward gear before reverse. beer


Good explanation here. How about the interface of the crank-end bushing/bearing & snout of input shaft.
up

That would do it as would several other possible things, they would become apparent with

Quote
If the gears start spinning again after having been put in a forward gear with the clutch continually depressed, that would indicate that something is dragging on the input shaft causing it and the cluster gear to start spinning again.


beer

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: 340rag] #3092725
11/08/22 10:22 PM
11/08/22 10:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,415
Connecticut
Ron_M Offline
top fuel
Ron_M  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,415
Connecticut
I'm on a cellphone, so I'm not sure, but I didn't see fluid level mentioned.
Mine was grinding a week and I topped off using Passon Elixir and all was good again drive


Common sense is a flower that does not grow in everybody's garden
Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: Ron_M] #3092734
11/08/22 11:23 PM
11/08/22 11:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
If the car is stop with the clutch pedal in and adjusted so there is a good air gap between the clutch disc and flywheel the cluster gear should be stopped, not spinning, so the reverse gear may not align well with the cluster gear making it harder to engage reverse, not make it grind. Putting in in any forward gear with the synchro working would stop the cluster gear from spinning if the clutch was not adjusted with enough air gap, correct work shruggy
Good luck, don't give up, YOU can FIX it up


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: Cab_Burge] #3092865
11/09/22 01:59 PM
11/09/22 01:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
now for something completely different...............[wasn't that a monty python line ?]
for a disclaimer, i know nothing about manual transmissions.
with that said, [bear with me now, please] my wife's 1994 chrysler concorde would chatter the converter clutch if speed was held around 2000rpms or so.
i don't know where i read this, or who told me about this, but adding a tube of limited slip differential additive [i used some yukon i had on hand, but more than likely, any brand will do] cured it on the first drive, and it's been fine ever since, about two years ago now.
i have no clue if this is anything to think about, just tossing it out there.
just my personal experience in life and its results.
your mileage will vary.
beer

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: moparx] #3103405
12/18/22 05:49 PM
12/18/22 05:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 63
Arizona
3
340rag Offline OP
member
340rag  Offline OP
member
3

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 63
Arizona
Just wanted to update.... ALL FIXED!! the problem was the centerforce dual friction setup put in a LUK in and all good now..Yaaaay Thank you for everyone who chimed in on my issue really appreciate!!

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: 340rag] #3103535
12/19/22 09:30 AM
12/19/22 09:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
moparx Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"
moparx  Offline
"Butt Crack Bob"

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,536
north of coder
glad it's all good now !
thanks for the update as well. up
beer

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: moparx] #3103538
12/19/22 09:46 AM
12/19/22 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
Richmond Twp. Mi.
Mr340 Offline
super stock
Mr340  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
Richmond Twp. Mi.
For us uniformed what is a “LUK” ?
work

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: Mr340] #3103555
12/19/22 10:59 AM
12/19/22 10:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
master
Sinitro  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,472
So Cal
Originally Posted by Mr340
For us uniformed what is a “LUK” ?
work


Brand based in Europe, products sold world-wide even Summit carries..
Here is a link for more info..

https://aftermarket.schaeffler.com/en/luk-repse

Just my $0.02... ;)t

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: Sinitro] #3103570
12/19/22 12:07 PM
12/19/22 12:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
Richmond Twp. Mi.
Mr340 Offline
super stock
Mr340  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,017
Richmond Twp. Mi.
Originally Posted by Sinitro
Originally Posted by Mr340
For us uniformed what is a “LUK” ?
work


Brand based in Europe, products sold world-wide even Summit carries..
Here is a link for more info..

https://aftermarket.schaeffler.com/en/luk-repse

Just my $0.02... ;)t


up

Re: Grinding in Reverse [Re: 340rag] #3103599
12/19/22 01:31 PM
12/19/22 01:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,012
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
TJP  Offline
I Live Here
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,012
Omaha Ne
Originally Posted by 340rag
Just wanted to update.... ALL FIXED!! the problem was the centerforce dual friction setup put in a LUK in and all good now..Yaaaay Thank you for everyone who chimed in on my issue really appreciate!!


Having put in about 200 or so C/F clutches with only ONE issue, I'd be really curious to know the root cause. might be a mpoint at this stage but that's my engineering curiosity whistling glad you have it fixed up

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