Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
To stroke or not to stroke?? #3036801
04/25/22 06:34 AM
04/25/22 06:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 837
Highland, Michigan
1972Rallye Offline OP
super stock
1972Rallye  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 837
Highland, Michigan
Looking for some input...

If I'm building a stock appearing 440 (original intake/heads/exhaust) with an upgraded 750-850 cfm Holley carb, does it make sense to do a stroker kit? The block had to be bored .030 already. I don't want to spend the extra $$ on the stroker kit if I am limiting the capacity of the engine with these stock components.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3036806
04/25/22 06:44 AM
04/25/22 06:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,785
Keymar, MD
DusterKid Offline
top fuel
DusterKid  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,785
Keymar, MD
What's the intended use of the engine/car? For a pure street car cruiser maybe don't stroke it, but if you have to start from scratch and buy an entire rotating assembly I see no reason not to stroke it.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3036808
04/25/22 06:49 AM
04/25/22 06:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,119
MN
J
JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,119
MN
The only added expense when rebuilding the engine is a crankshaft. Why mess around with a 50+ year old crankshaft? I see no reason not to do it.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: JERICOGTX] #3036859
04/25/22 09:04 AM
04/25/22 09:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
The only added expense when rebuilding the engine is a crankshaft. Why mess around with a 50+ year old crankshaft? I see no reason not to do it.
to add to Jeffs comment, more torque means a sweeter running low rpm motor. My choice would be as big a stroke crank as will fit in my oil system plans. Do a search on what will fit if you plan on an internal (stock) pickup. 4.375 might clear , but i am not sure. Cam choice should match the restrictive intake and exhaust, focussing on torque. It may be best to go custom on the cam, and it may be as tame as 228 at . 050 and less than . 500 lift. The end result should be like a stock 440 on steroids! Brutal torque, shifts at or below 5000 rpm. FUN!

Last edited by gregsdart; 04/25/22 09:05 AM.

8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: gregsdart] #3036863
04/25/22 09:19 AM
04/25/22 09:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,119
MN
J
JERICOGTX Offline
I Live Here
JERICOGTX  Offline
I Live Here
J

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,119
MN
Originally Posted by gregsdart
Originally Posted by JERICOGTX
The only added expense when rebuilding the engine is a crankshaft. Why mess around with a 50+ year old crankshaft? I see no reason not to do it.
to add to Jeffs comment, more torque means a sweeter running low rpm motor. My choice would be as big a stroke crank as will fit in my oil system plans. Do a search on what will fit if you plan on an internal (stock) pickup. 4.375 might clear , but i am not sure. Cam choice should match the restrictive intake and exhaust, focussing on torque. It may be best to go custom on the cam, and it may be as tame as 228 at . 050 and less than . 500 lift. The end result should be like a stock 440 on steroids! Brutal torque, shifts at or below 5000 rpm. FUN!


4.250 stroke is about max. Since the 4.250 crank uses 2.20 Chevy rod journals, there is less fitment issues than a 4.150 stroke crank, and Mopar rod journals. 512ci is a perfect size street engine. More cubes, and torque, mean you can use a higher gear ratio as well.


69 GTX 68 Road Runner
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3036868
04/25/22 09:38 AM
04/25/22 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053
Benton, IL.
D
DaveRS23 Offline
Master of nothing...
DaveRS23  Offline
Master of nothing...
D

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,053
Benton, IL.
With stockish heads, what you will gain is TORQUE. And lots of it. Not so much gain in acceleration.


Master, again and still
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: DaveRS23] #3036884
04/25/22 09:55 AM
04/25/22 09:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,543
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted by DaveRS23
With stockish heads, what you will gain is TORQUE. And lots of it. Not so much gain in acceleration.

iagree And just move the peaks down lower. If this isn't a good effort at a stock appearing type of deal, then I'd have no issue keeping the stock stroke. The stock heads and intake are strangling 440 cubes to begin with. twocents


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: an8sec70cuda] #3036894
04/25/22 10:09 AM
04/25/22 10:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,928
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,928
Kirkland, Washington
Stock 440’s are pretty quickly limited by the heads as soon as minor induction and exhaust improvements are made. I would go ahead with the stroker crank but also port the heads, and bump the compression a bit while you are at it.

Last edited by Pacnorthcuda; 04/25/22 10:33 AM.
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #3036897
04/25/22 10:17 AM
04/25/22 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,767
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
master
rickseeman  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,767
Stuttgart, Arkansas
Stroke


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3036929
04/25/22 11:25 AM
04/25/22 11:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,035
NY
B
B1duster Offline
master
B1duster  Offline
master
B

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,035
NY
Build a stroker with 440 source heads with an edelbrock ch48 or Weiand action plus.
Paint it all hemi orange or turquoise and stick it in.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: rickseeman] #3036930
04/25/22 11:28 AM
04/25/22 11:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,774
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,774
A collage of whims
Agree with the above from personal experience, except my 406" street 360 DID accelerate a lot better, even with basically stock heads.
Did a nice valve job & port-match, otherwise very stock except it already had headers.
Pulled 17 MPG @ 70; 3.21 gear, 28" tire, '74 Duster, & ran AC too. Engle HFT with about .470/.504 lift, 214/224 @ .050.
The more expansive answer depends on budget, the rest of the combo, and use.
The stock heads are the limiting factor, and for stock-appearing BBs I like ported Stealth heads.
Less stock-appearing to sharp eyes is a Performer RPM, but I've removed the Eddy lettering on those on a couple 440s.
You can move the torque curve & peak around a bit with stroke, it's pretty much longer = lower.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3036976
04/25/22 01:30 PM
04/25/22 01:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
C

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
Any time you change a component of a stock engine to improve performance or economy of its operation you normally change the operating range of peak torque and peak HP, that being said do you want more power or not?
If so you can use the stock heads and intake with the slightly bigger carb and a stock type cam and slightly improve the motor performance from idle to peak power with that carb up scope
If you increase the stroke a little bit to 3.91 or up it to 4.250 stroke and leave everything else the same the increased stroke will improve the motors performance by a little or a lot depending on which stroke you choose twocents
I really like making and driving stroker motors on the street and at the strip, I like more power a lot boogie up devil
If money is not a real problem look at increasing the stroke to 4.250 with a good balance kit from a good company or buy the individual components and have it built and balanced locally the way you want it work scope up
Be careful on the final true final compression ratio with any iron heads, stock or modified twocents I like and shoot for 9.5 to 1 or lower on my iron headed street and strip builds up twocents
Good luck either way

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 04/25/22 01:32 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: Cab_Burge] #3036998
04/25/22 02:41 PM
04/25/22 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
F
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here
fast68plymouth  Offline
I Live Here
F

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
Imo, the only real hurdle for using a stroker crank in a stock appearing pump gas street BB is the lack of off the shelf quench dome pistons if you’re trying to use open chamber heads.
Sure, you can have some customs made, but who wants $1200 pistons in a mild built like that?

Just get warmed up to the idea of closed chamber aftermarket heads, and all is good.



68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3037025
04/25/22 04:35 PM
04/25/22 04:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,066
Atlanta, GA
M
mgoblue9798 Offline
super stock
mgoblue9798  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,066
Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by 1972Rallye
Looking for some input...

If I'm building a stock appearing 440 (original intake/heads/exhaust) with an upgraded 750-850 cfm Holley carb, does it make sense to do a stroker kit? The block had to be bored .030 already. I don't want to spend the extra $$ on the stroker kit if I am limiting the capacity of the engine with these stock components.


I would use the stock stroke bottom end with higher compression pistons and spend the money on a set of aftermarket heads. The 440 has more than enough torque for any street car.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: mgoblue9798] #3037033
04/25/22 05:01 PM
04/25/22 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 939
B
birdtracker Offline
super stock
birdtracker  Offline
super stock
B

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 939
so from experience I can tell it is going to depend on what oil system you want to use. If you want a 1/2" factory style pick up tube then 4,25 is the biggest crank that will fit in a factory cast block. If you want to use a swinging pickup style in the pan, you can plug the factory hole and you will have to grind clearance right there for the rod to clear but a 4.375 crank will fit. I built a motor that was 4.375 X 4.375. It was a beast.Birdtracker

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: 1972Rallye] #3037050
04/25/22 06:03 PM
04/25/22 06:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 905
Missouri
J
jwb123 Offline
super stock
jwb123  Offline
super stock
J

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 905
Missouri
If you have the money stroke it to 500 inch, put an 850 carb on it, and you will be very happy. Built several for myself and customers. One was a 69 roadrunner, I ported the 906 heads, and it would run 10.90's with a 4.11 gear and a 2,800 stall on pump gas. If I remember right it was a .520 lift cam, 108 center and 235 or so duration, nice lumpy idle, but cleaned out well when you accelerated.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: birdtracker] #3037054
04/25/22 06:04 PM
04/25/22 06:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,833
fredericksburg,va
C
cudaman1969 Offline
Itch Nutz
cudaman1969  Offline
Itch Nutz
C

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,833
fredericksburg,va
Simple and the least expensive is stock parts, they will do fine. Got cash sticking out your pockets go for it. I’d spend the money in the heads-cam first, light rods-pistons-crank next. Very easy to get to radical to quick.

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: cudaman1969] #3037098
04/25/22 08:33 PM
04/25/22 08:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 705
st.louis,mo.
dart games Offline
super stock
dart games  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 705
st.louis,mo.
stroker motor any day.why stay with a boring stock stroke

Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: dart games] #3037137
04/25/22 10:19 PM
04/25/22 10:19 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
INTMD8 Offline
super stock
INTMD8  Offline
super stock

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
Originally Posted by 69b1dart
stroker motor any day.why stay with a boring stock stroke


IMO, because if it's on a budget and staying with stock heads/intake/exhaust........ keeping those stock components and putting a longer arm in it would only make it more boring or, appropriate for a tow truck.


Stock 440 is already a lower rpm/torque engine.

If on a budget and you have a reciprocating assembly already, I would spend the money on head porting and cam upgrade long before keeping those stock and increasing displacement.


69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
Re: To stroke or not to stroke?? [Re: INTMD8] #3037154
04/26/22 02:44 AM
04/26/22 02:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
I Live Here
gregsdart  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,155
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Since there are some widely differing opinions on stroke, i ran a simulation on Engine Anyliser. Basically the more stroke the merrior between 1500 and 4000 rpm, right where most street driving is going to be. If you want to get crazy, a 4.5 stroke crank went up to 510 ft lbs tq at 3000 rpm versus 400 at stock stroke.
The cam was critical. Duration at 220 to 224 on both sides worked well. Peak hp landed at 4250 with a 4.25 stroke. These calcs were done assuming stock everything but cam and carb. An engine built like this would need a very tight converter like a 2200 to 2400 stall. 3.55 max rear gears, as it runs out of breath at 5000.
The key to best performance would be invest in some aftermarket stock appearing heads with a little bowl work done on them. Some tricks to a stock intake might pay great dividends, (open plenum?) And the best flowing mufflers are a must to not choke off the top end power.

Last edited by gregsdart; 04/26/22 02:53 AM.

8.582, 160.18 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1