Late for the party, I've wondered why Mopar never introduce a Suburban competitor back in the 90s. I also wondered why Ford stopped making the Excursion as it seemed to be popular in that niche of the market.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Mastershake340]
#3033104 04/13/2211:25 AM04/13/2211:25 AM
We have a Yukon and have been looking for a newer one but prices for them have gone thru the roof even before the pandemic so there's some demand for them still. With gas prices the way they are it's a strange time to be introducing it but maybe their end play is get the Grand Wagoneer name out there again and then move it on to something else. The thing costs a lot but it's more loaded then other similar suv's and cross overs or whatever you want to call them in that price range.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Dart 500]
#3033182 04/13/2202:25 PM04/13/2202:25 PM
It's a VERY profitable market segment. IIRC at one time at least, GM's profit margin on Suburban was higher than the already astronomical profit margin Cadillac Eldorado. With the Expedition Max an also ran there may be an opportunity for Stellantis to pick up significant market share from GM. If anything negative regarding reliability comes out, it's all over, big gamble.
Comment from a buyer, he makes the same value comparison I've made:
"Purchased a Wagoneer series 3 (not the grand) for the wife in December, sticker was $90,200 completely loaded. Some may say that’s high but I can tell you looking at GMC, and Cadillac getting even close to the options I have in my series 3 put both of them closer to $105 and both still have less tow capacity and far less quality as my Wagoneer. We are now 1 month in this Wagoneer and still find options and electronics we did not know we had. My only complaint is the monitors in the rear seats which are based on the amazon firestick platform so far in MY opinion is horrible. In one month the monitors have froze several times and we will be calling Wagoneer about this if it happens again. Sorry but for $90k the entertainment for the kids shouldn’t freeze up this much. Other than that the Wagoneer is amazing and I would say there is really NO OTHER suv with as much quality yet than this thing. I own a 2020 ram HO so I can’t compare the towing with that but my wife traded in our 2019 Nissan Titan XD for the Wagoneer 3. Comparing bumper pull with that I would say it is impressive for an suv on our trailer. My trailer is a 20foot with a 50hp tractor for our ranch. About 8800 with attachments and 50 gallons of diesel on the deck.."
Seems like regular playbook for Chrysler . . .look at the 70 Barracuda/Challenger . . . brought in at end of musclecar era . . . or the lack of Dakota midsize truck now . . . OR, only 2 models for Chrysler (300 & Pacifica) . . . who is steering the ship ?!?!? . . .
GM has pretty much had that big SUV space to itself for a while . . . guess it's better late than never . . .????
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: a12rag]
#3033194 04/13/2202:44 PM04/13/2202:44 PM
Seems like regular playbook for Chrysler . . .look at the 70 Barracuda/Challenger . . . brought in at end of musclecar era . . . or the lack of Dakota midsize truck now . . . OR, only 2 models for Chrysler (300 & Pacifica) . . . who is steering the ship ?!?!? . . .
GM has pretty much had that big SUV space to itself for a while . . . guess it's better late than never . . .????
Agreed, looks a lot like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. 1994, or maybe the mid 1980's was when they should've gotten in on this. Lots of people weren't buying Ramchargers anymore because they wanted a 4 door SUV. I cannot recall the excuse they gave for not doing it while introducing the Durango?
It's a VERY profitable market segment. IIRC at one time at least, GM's profit margin on Suburban was higher than the already astronomical profit margin Cadillac Eldorado. With the Expedition Max an also ran there may be an opportunity for Stellantis to pick up significant market share from GM. If anything negative regarding reliability comes out, it's all over, big gamble.
Comment from a buyer, he makes the same value comparison I've made:
"Purchased a Wagoneer series 3 (not the grand) for the wife in December, sticker was $90,200 completely loaded. Some may say that’s high but I can tell you looking at GMC, and Cadillac getting even close to the options I have in my series 3 put both of them closer to $105 and both still have less tow capacity and far less quality as my Wagoneer. We are now 1 month in this Wagoneer and still find options and electronics we did not know we had. My only complaint is the monitors in the rear seats which are based on the amazon firestick platform so far in MY opinion is horrible. In one month the monitors have froze several times and we will be calling Wagoneer about this if it happens again. Sorry but for $90k the entertainment for the kids shouldn’t freeze up this much. Other than that the Wagoneer is amazing and I would say there is really NO OTHER suv with as much quality yet than this thing. I own a 2020 ram HO so I can’t compare the towing with that but my wife traded in our 2019 Nissan Titan XD for the Wagoneer 3. Comparing bumper pull with that I would say it is impressive for an suv on our trailer. My trailer is a 20foot with a 50hp tractor for our ranch. About 8800 with attachments and 50 gallons of diesel on the deck.."
I am sure the profits on them are substantial, its based on the Ram 1500, which also means the discounts will be deep on them once the new car supply gets back to where it needs to be. They are late to the party though no matter how you slice it
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Dart 500]
#3033217 04/13/2203:59 PM04/13/2203:59 PM
Shoot we'll be lucky if the new car market ever gets where it needs to be again. Component shortages, suppliers getting shut down in places like Ukraine even. China shutting down cities and ports for Covid still. I work for a truck OEM and during a employee meeting recently they were talking about commodity pricing. For example steel was up 250% in a year and other components were almost as bad. The days of nice rebates and negotiating10 grand below sticker are history IMHO.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Mastershake340]
#3033255 04/13/2204:59 PM04/13/2204:59 PM
Shoot we'll be lucky if the new car market ever gets where it needs to be again. Component shortages, suppliers getting shut down in places like Ukraine even. China shutting down cities and ports for Covid still. I work for a truck OEM and during a employee meeting recently they were talking about commodity pricing. For example steel was up 250% in a year and other components were almost as bad. The days of nice rebates and negotiating10 grand below sticker are history IMHO.
It'll get there, they are already building chip factories here and will self-make anything else they need. Not sure of the exact numbers but I think they are off about 3 million sales, which ironically was the same as 2007 when GM and Chrysler put up the white flag. Remember back then when GM was so shamed about the hummer they axed the brand, and look at what Jeep just built lol. Every 10 years it seems we go into melt down mode
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Dart 500]
#3033318 04/13/2207:31 PM04/13/2207:31 PM
I wish they would have built something like an old sedan delivery even into the 90s. No way in HE11 I would spend nearly what they want even for an entry level new wagoneer. Still more than a I paid for my house back in 98 and I am still paying for that. We have an 01 Durango that is about to hit 300k, I replaced the original 360 in it at 258k and rebuilt the trans at the same time. I bought that Durango back in 2013 because we really wanted another XJ Cherokee, but I could have bought 3 Durango's for the price of 1 XJ. The Durango is too small for some things, usually it's about the right size. Not interested in any other brands of vehicles besides Dodge. Hope to find another 98-03 Durango with a clean body and a 318/360 (don't want a 4.7) while hopefully getting the current Durango to 400k. Will never buy new.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: volaredon]
#3033359 04/13/2209:14 PM04/13/2209:14 PM
I wish they would have built something like an old sedan delivery even into the 90s. No way in HE11 I would spend nearly what they want even for an entry level new wagoneer. Still more than a I paid for my house back in 98 and I am still paying for that. We have an 01 Durango that is about to hit 300k, I replaced the original 360 in it at 258k and rebuilt the trans at the same time. I bought that Durango back in 2013 because we really wanted another XJ Cherokee, but I could have bought 3 Durango's for the price of 1 XJ. The Durango is too small for some things, usually it's about the right size. Not interested in any other brands of vehicles besides Dodge. Hope to find another 98-03 Durango with a clean body and a 318/360 (don't want a 4.7) while hopefully getting the current Durango to 400k. Will never buy new.
Ugly but look into the last gen Durangos and Chrysler Aspens, can be had for a song these days and 5.7 hemi power
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Dart 500]
#3033404 04/14/2212:15 AM04/14/2212:15 AM
Perfect timing for chrysler! Sit back and watch GMC sell millions and millions of suburbans for 30 strong years then when gas hits $4 and $5 a gallon THEN and only then come out with one to compete!
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: RoadRunnerLuva]
#3033548 04/14/2202:30 PM04/14/2202:30 PM
I was at a dealership today getting a recall taken care of on my 2500. They had a Grand Wagoneer in the showroom and it's the first one I have got to check out closely. It was not really as huge as I thought, not that it wasn't big, but no where near something like an Excursion. The interior really looked incredible. $122,500 incredible? That is what the sticker was on this one, and it only had 2 options! The sticker was very close to twice what the sticker was on my well equipped Big Horn 6.4 Ram 2500 last year.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Mastershake340]
#3033550 04/14/2202:35 PM04/14/2202:35 PM
not sure why it's rotated the interior picture. I just tried to fool the system by rotating the picture and saving it upside down, then attaching it, and it still shows upside down here!
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: Dart 500]
#3033557 04/14/2203:06 PM04/14/2203:06 PM
Maybe more for the elite status type buyer? Myself would not be a buyer of that unit at 22k.
Me neither, however neither of us are even close to the target demographic Jeep is aiming this product at. But I live in an area with a lot of upscale young adult professionals, people who live in $500,000-$1M+ houses, and can see many of them being interested in a vehicle like this. I’d rather see them buying one of these than a Lexus or Audi SUV like I see many of on the area roads! I saw an interesting YouTube review video this morning. JB Reviews does videos on trucks and SUVs and is a big fan of Rams, and he tows a big RV and 30’ car trailer so focuses a lot on towing qualities in the trucks, so he does a pretty interesting take on the vehicles he reviews.
Re: Surprised there is still a market for vehicles like this
[Re: RoadRunnerLuva]
#3033800 04/15/2211:26 AM04/15/2211:26 AM
Look at the home in the background. This isn't something being marketed to the working class.
Bingo! We have a winner! As long as there are the 10%er's and the 1%er's in this country....these big SUVs will continue to sell all day long.
Might need to include some of the underground economists too. Rural area often see these behemoths prowling about. Along with black wheeled, loud exhaust, suede painted Tundras, MB's, wide bodies, etc...
