DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
#3026227
03/21/22 10:56 PM
03/21/22 10:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,209 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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Opened up the new mopar action and leading off tech was a question about mixing the silicone stuff with dot 4 and down. Eberg basically said everything people say about the stuff is wrong, to just use it no matter what. Everything from not mixing, to gelling, to having to flush with alcohol, is completely wrong he says. Having read his stuff for 25+ years, I find his insights to be pretty darn good.
I have a nice paint and would much rather use the silicone because of that. Really nice paint.
I ordered up a bottle of dot 5 to do my spring fluid flush. Right on the bottle it says it doesn’t mix. This was eluded to in the magazine as something along the lines of “when the lawyers get involved.” I suppose that is what he was talking about.
So now I’m wondering if I should just forge ahead as he says, or grab the dot 4 and just do it that way.
I want my fair share
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#3026230
03/21/22 11:03 PM
03/21/22 11:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,566 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
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Read every race and performance brake company's instructions and recommendation concerning Dot 5 fluid.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: Andrewh]
#3026270
03/22/22 06:46 AM
03/22/22 06:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,921 new berlin wisconsin
Mr T2U
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i have been posting basically the same thing for years. search this topic and read my older posts.
actually DOT 4 & 5 don't MIX. mixing the 2 won't cause then to jell either.. do a at home test yourself. get a jar and mix the 2. DOT5 is usually purple and DOT is clear to almost clear. shake well and let then sit. after a while the 2 products will be at different levels in your jar. it will stay this way as long as you keep this jar. they also have slightly different compression rates so this can give you a odd brake pedal feel when mixing the 2 products. also don't just top off DOT 4 with DOT 5 or vice versa. doing this will create problems in brake performance. this is probably why these rumors started. you can use 5 and force out the 4 NO PROBLEM without flushing with alcohol. i did this every time i switched from 4 to 5. actually flushing with alcohol will create some problems by itself.
the most important thing to remember when using DOT 5 is it easily retains AIR. this is why it has a bad reputation as a poor product. this is why you can't use it in a anti lock braking system.
a few thoughts when using DOT 5 brake fluid. don't shake up the bottle before you use it. i like to open the bottle and let it sit out in the sun for a hour or so before using. this will help force the air out of the fluid before using. when bleeding don't pump the pedal fast. pump slowly and constantly.
another thing to keep in mind when using DOT5. because water doesn't mix with it. because of this you can develop water pockets inside of your brake lines. this can also create a set of problems with pedal feel and lines rusting from the inside out. you might want to consider changing DOT 5 every few years if you plan on switching fluids.
hope these tips help.
Last edited by Mr T2U; 03/22/22 06:57 AM.
perception is 90% of reality
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: SportF]
#3026306
03/22/22 09:56 AM
03/22/22 09:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,783 Corpus Christi, TX
shanker
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I run DOT5 with great performance in everything I have that's non-ABS
When I did the 70 R/T and 74 Ramcharger, EVERYTHING was new except for the hard lines, so flushing was easy.
WHen I did the 75 Duster, I tried to use the DOT5 with my power bleeder to do a full displacement and about 18 months later, I had to replace the rear wheel cylinders due to corrosion and when opening them up, realized that the DOT5 didn't push out the old fluid, so I went ahead and rebuilt the front calipers and all is well and brake performance is great.
The think I like most about DOT5 is that even 10 years after running it in my 70 R/T, there is NO corrosion in the brake system and I'm contributing that to the fact that it's not water soluble. I do take it a step further and pack behind the piston seals with silicone grease and will continue to do so until I realize that my efforts are pointless, or someone has some technical info showing this is bad, but it keeps moisture out which is my goal.
The Federal Government has not yet learned that you cannot legislate morality
1970 Coronet R/T FF4/FF8/V85/V1G 440/Auto/3.23
1970 Coronet R/T FK5/FK5/V8W/V1W 440/Auto/3.55
1970 Super Bee TX9/TX9/V8W/N96 383/Auto/3.91
1975 Duster 360 VS29L5 Daily Driver
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#3026348
03/22/22 12:31 PM
03/22/22 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,796 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Are you willing to trust a magazine writer who has a degree in journalism or the manufactures? Well, the SAE behind his name gives him more credibility than some journalists, and consider whether the manufacturers recommendations are based on science or legal issues. Also, take note that Wilwood, who for years nixed DOT 5 fluid, now markets their own silicone fluid.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3026378
03/22/22 01:31 PM
03/22/22 01:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,209 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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This is what was written.
I see nothing so far on Baer web site. Looking when I get a chance. People are ALL over the map on it working or not.
Thing about him is, he’s been a serious road racer for a long time.
I’m wondering if gravity bleeding would get around entrainment issues?
I want my fair share
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: Mr T2U]
#3026420
03/22/22 03:11 PM
03/22/22 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,508 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
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another thing to keep in mind when using DOT5. because water doesn't mix with it. because of this you can develop water pockets inside of your brake lines. this can also create a set of problems with pedal feel and lines rusting from the inside out. you might want to consider changing DOT 5 every few years if you plan on switching fluids. This, the fact that DOT5 does not mix with water (like alcohol base DOT3,4,5.1) is the long-term dangerous point of using it. Any water, condensation, or moisture that forms inside the brake lines usual finds its way to a low point in the system and then corrodes or rusts the line from the inside. This is more likely to happen with vehicles that do not get used as often as say daily drivers and more likely with classic vehicles. And the fact that water is H2 O that alone causes issues with braking performance if the fluid is not changed at more frequent intervals. For me I use DOT4 or DOT5.1 (5.1 is NOT silicone but alcohol base developed for ABS systems) and careful when using, topping off or changing it. Oh and has any manufacture ever put DOT5 silicone O.E. into a brake system? If no I wonder why? I also don't think that the SAE recommends DOT5 silicone as a replacement for DOT3,4,5.1 for the water issues and possibly some other reasons like mixing issues, and general availability.
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: A12]
#3026492
03/22/22 06:10 PM
03/22/22 06:10 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,816 ohio
ruderunner
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Doesn't the military use silicone?
Oem look for low costs vs longevity.
A sealed master gets water from where?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: DOT 5 brake fluid - Eberg vs. Internet
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#3026495
03/22/22 06:28 PM
03/22/22 06:28 PM
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Joined: May 2019
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Sniper
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Are you willing to trust a magazine writer who has a degree in journalism or the manufactures? Well, the SAE behind his name gives him more credibility than some journalists, and consider whether the manufacturers recommendations are based on science or legal issues. Also, take note that Wilwood, who for years nixed DOT 5 fluid, now markets their own silicone fluid. It costs $99/yr to join the SAE. That is all the requirement that is needed, your dollars. Now I suspect he joined to have access to the technical papers and the fact that the credulous think it bestows some sort of esoteric knowledge upon him is just gravy. Actually, I think he deliberately encourages that thinking because he makes sure to put SAE after his name. BFD. As for his commentary about silicone fluid not being compressible, he is right and he is also misleading and and his conclusions are incomplete. Ask him to explain air entrainment, if he knows what that is without having to google it. Guess what happens to those water pockets that collect in the lines of a system using silicon brake fluid when it's below freezing out?
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