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Bump steer question
#302428
04/28/09 09:34 PM
04/28/09 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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I removed the upper control arm snubbers to gain more front end travel. I am having a problem where my car kind of wig-wags (sort of feels like it's fish-tailing) every time I bang a gear. A friend asked me if I have had it checked for bump steer because another UMTR racer was having a similar problem. I'm thinking because a stick car lifts the front more on shifts that this could be the problem. What do you think?  Mike
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: mike67net]
#302429
04/28/09 10:07 PM
04/28/09 10:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 878
hudson valley n.y.
GEORGE68HEMIRR
super street
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super street
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 878
hudson valley n.y.
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Quote:
I removed the upper control arm snubbers to gain more front end travel. I am having a problem where my car kind of wig-wags (sort of feels like it's fish-tailing) every time I bang a gear.
A friend asked me if I have had it checked for bump steer because another UMTR racer was having a similar problem.
I'm thinking because a stick car lifts the front more on shifts that this could be the problem.
What do you think?
Mike
hows your ball joints,tie rods,upper and lower control arm bushings,alignment and strut rod bushings....i just did all of that and wow what a difference....drives like a dream
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: GEORGE68HEMIRR]
#302430
04/28/09 10:30 PM
04/28/09 10:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I removed the upper control arm snubbers to gain more front end travel. I am having a problem where my car kind of wig-wags (sort of feels like it's fish-tailing) every time I bang a gear.
A friend asked me if I have had it checked for bump steer because another UMTR racer was having a similar problem.
I'm thinking because a stick car lifts the front more on shifts that this could be the problem.
What do you think?
Mike
hows your ball joints,tie rods,upper and lower control arm bushings,alignment and strut rod bushings....i just did all of that and wow what a difference....drives like a dream
All is pretty new with very few street miles and maybe 150 passes.
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: GEORGE68HEMIRR]
#302431
04/28/09 10:32 PM
04/28/09 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
I removed the upper control arm snubbers to gain more front end travel. I am having a problem where my car kind of wig-wags (sort of feels like it's fish-tailing) every time I bang a gear.
A friend asked me if I have had it checked for bump steer because another UMTR racer was having a similar problem.
I'm thinking because a stick car lifts the front more on shifts that this could be the problem.
What do you think?
Mike
hows your ball joints,tie rods,upper and lower control arm bushings,alignment and strut rod bushings....i just did all of that and wow what a difference....drives like a dream
Yep, All that stuff has to be up to snuff first before you look at bump steer. On these older cars the lower control arm bushings are a common failure thats not always easy to notice.
Also stick shift cars being more violent in thier reaction are more prone to bump steer issues. mike
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: mike67net]
#302433
04/28/09 10:46 PM
04/28/09 10:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Have you checked the toe curve on the front end... dont let it toe out, this will cause a car to dart around and that might be what you think is the back end loose. MOST guys that I know tend to move the steering wheel a little during a sfift(stick cars) and if its going toe out thats your issue... check the toe curve through out the travel 
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#302435
04/29/09 03:43 AM
04/29/09 03:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Have you checked the toe curve on the front end...
dont let it toe out, this will cause a car to dart
around and that might be what you think is the back
end loose. MOST guys that I know tend to move the
steering wheel a little during a sfift(stick cars)
and if its going toe out thats your issue... check
the toe curve through out the travel
That is what it feels like, it darts back and forth at the shifts. That's why I was thinking it was caused by the front rising quickly.
Mike
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#302436
04/29/09 03:52 AM
04/29/09 03:52 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
That is not true about stick cars being more prone to issues. If the front end is done right you can set the tow all the way down and then jack the car up until the tires almost come off the ground and it will change less than 1/8 inch. It takes an old school front end person to do this right and I had the best teacher in the world. If you PM me your number I can help you with this. You need to get your caster and camber right before you set the Tow End and Bump. We actually picked our stocker up 2mph after buying the car just lining up the front end. You cant go fast if your scrubbing the tires.
Herb McCandless Jr
PM sent 
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: Sport440]
#302437
04/29/09 07:25 AM
04/29/09 07:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
HMcCandless_Jr
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
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Quote:
While your right in a sense, if set up Properly a stick shift car shouldent have any more bump steer issues over a auto tranny car.
But in reality a stick shift car Will exagerate any bump steer issues over a auto trans car simply because of its more violent nature. mike
If its right its right. If you get the bump to zero or 1/16 it is where it is. Most front end guys have no idea how to get it to that tolerance. Nobody made more run in a 4 speed car than Herb McCandless did when he was racing with match races and testing for Chrysler and all his cars had zero bump steer. He made 38 runs in one day testing at Milan Michigan. Remember that was NO Two Steps, No clutchless, no fancy clutches, just hard care driving.
Herb McCandless Jr
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: mike67net]
#302439
04/29/09 02:00 PM
04/29/09 02:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
HMcCandless_Jr
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
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Quote:
I removed the upper control arm snubbers to gain more front end travel. I am having a problem where my car kind of wig-wags (sort of feels like it's fish-tailing) every time I bang a gear.
What do you think?
Mike
I missed this, put the stops back in.
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: mike67net]
#302440
04/29/09 08:21 PM
04/29/09 08:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,558
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,558
Rittman Ohio
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Hey Mike when you get some info on where to set the specs give me a buzz and we can set up a time to bring it over to the shop.You can give Herb my number to help explain how to set it up,how high,etc... When I left your house it was only 45 minutes to the shop in Kent so throw it on the trailer and bring it over. Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#302441
04/29/09 08:42 PM
04/29/09 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Hey Mike when you get some info on where to set the specs give me a buzz and we can set up a time to bring it over to the shop.You can give Herb my number to help explain how to set it up,how high,etc...
When I left your house it was only 45 minutes to the shop in Kent so throw it on the trailer and bring it over.
Gus
Hey Gus,
That sounds like a plan!
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: Sport440]
#302446
04/30/09 07:38 AM
04/30/09 07:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
HMcCandless_Jr
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 401
NC
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Quote:
Quote:
The key is to be able to set the tow end all the way down, then jack it up over 3 inches and have the wheels not tow in or out. How much variance do you have now.
Quit useing the word Tow, Your bugging me with that! 
With the different lengths between the upper and lower control arms of our older mopars we can never achieve absolute Zero bump steer throughout its full travel.
Yea your right, I only have 2 race cars personally that have ZERO bump and have only done more than I can remember to that point. If your ever at an IHRA race and you see a 67 Dodge Coronet Wagon in K/CM come see us, Ill show you its dead zero and only picked up 2mph in the 1/8 doing this.
Herb McCandless Jr
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Re: Bump steer question
[Re: HMcCandless_Jr]
#302447
04/30/09 08:21 AM
04/30/09 08:21 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
The key is to be able to set the tow end all the way down, then jack it up over 3 inches and have the wheels not tow in or out. How much variance do you have now.
I don't know, I don't do my own alignments. My main question was if by adding more front end travel by removing the upper contol arm bushings, could I have created a bump steer situation.
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