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Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: B3422W5] #300659
04/27/09 04:51 PM
04/27/09 04:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Mosin Offline OP
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Mosin  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Highland, CA
Quote:

Hi..

I doubt seriously its the routing on the plug wires. I can lterally wrap my MSD wires together and no miss at 7500rpm in my race car.




That is encouraging. They can't touch anywhere based on my draconian separation regime, and this is the third set, so it looks like I have spare MSD wires for the next several years.

Quote:

Cant see it being mechanical, a valve spring doesnt know if its undfer load or not, all it knows is RPM,right?..If you can rev it in neutral, and no misfire i would think its got to be spark or fuel related.




It definitely does not occurr without a load, and even under load it is sporadic. I spoke with a helpful person at 440source who was thinking it WAS a valve/spring based on the description, as he was thinking the springs are under a different type of pressures and load under load (if you will) and thus recommended a compression test first. This is certainly still on the near horizon if my above plans for the fuel system don't pan out, but I really appreciate the input!

Quote:


my first thought would have been the 6al, but you SEEM to have eliminated that.




I actually did eliminate it completely and run the dizzy straight as per MSD tech's instructions. That didn't yield any change, so they swapped the dizzy out under warranty... and still no change. In the process of swapping out the dizzy I noticed that I still had the ballast resistor in line, which meant that my coil had not ben getting the full 12v for ~12K miles (!). It had also been mounted horizontally for all that time, so I swapped out the coil with a new Blaster 2, mounted it vertically as pictured above, and ran the 12v lead directly from the battery... and no difference.

Quote:


My second thought would be fuel pump,filter,or some sort of undervoltage issue




The pump is a brand new Carter (CRT-P4600HP - 8 PSI) receiving 12v+ at idle, but I'm not sure if there is a voltage drop under load. The stock mech. pump has been removed. The filters have been replaced a few times, but I am going to go over the entire delivery system again and bypass the tanks, switch valve, and pre-pump canister filter, as well as the post-pump Holley regulator. I should add, I have tried running without the press. reg, and with high-flow needles and seats, and that didn't cure the problem, but I hadn't eliminated the tanks and switch valve from the loop. A more thorough/systematic process is next... and I will certainly post the results!

Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: Mosin] #300660
04/27/09 04:57 PM
04/27/09 04:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

I have been going simultaneously broke and insane. Mosin


Sounds like we got ya just in time


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: Mosin] #300661
04/27/09 04:59 PM
04/27/09 04:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
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B3422W5 Offline
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Portage,michigan
Quote:

Quote:

Hi..

I doubt seriously its the routing on the plug wires. I can lterally wrap my MSD wires together and no miss at 7500rpm in my race car.




That is encouraging. They can't touch anywhere based on my draconian separation regime, and this is the third set, so it looks like I have spare MSD wires for the next several years.

Quote:

Cant see it being mechanical, a valve spring doesnt know if its undfer load or not, all it knows is RPM,right?..If you can rev it in neutral, and no misfire i would think its got to be spark or fuel related.




It definitely does not occurr without a load, and even under load it is sporadic. I spoke with a helpful person at 440source who was thinking it WAS a valve/spring based on the description, as he was thinking the springs are under a different type of pressures and load under load (if you will) and thus recommended a compression test first. This is certainly still on the near horizon if my above plans for the fuel system don't pan out, but I really appreciate the input!

Quote:


my first thought would have been the 6al, but you SEEM to have eliminated that.




I actually did eliminate it completely and run the dizzy straight as per MSD tech's instructions. That didn't yield any change, so they swapped the dizzy out under warranty... and still no change. In the process of swapping out the dizzy I noticed that I still had the ballast resistor in line, which meant that my coil had not ben getting the full 12v for ~12K miles (!). It had also been mounted horizontally for all that time, so I swapped out the coil with a new Blaster 2, mounted it vertically as pictured above, and ran the 12v lead directly from the battery... and no difference.

Quote:


My second thought would be fuel pump,filter,or some sort of undervoltage issue




The pump is a brand new Carter (CRT-P4600HP - 8 PSI) receiving 12v+ at idle, but I'm not sure if there is a voltage drop under load. The stock mech. pump has been removed. The filters have been replaced a few times, but I am going to go over the entire delivery system again and bypass the tanks, switch valve, and pre-pump canister filter, as well as the post-pump Holley regulator. I should add, I have tried running without the press. reg, and with high-flow needles and seats, and that didn't cure the problem, but I hadn't eliminated the tanks and switch valve from the loop. A more thorough/systematic process is next... and I will certainly post the results!





Put your stock mechanical pump back on and see what happens.

also check the bushing for the dizzy


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car

1.41 best 60 foot
6.54 @ 105.20



Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: moper] #300662
04/27/09 05:03 PM
04/27/09 05:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Mosin Offline OP
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Highland, CA
Quote:

Did they install a NEW oil pump drive or re-use it on a new bushing? What about the fuel pump push rod? I've had bad distributor drives do that at different RPMS. Pull the distributor and using a large flat blade screwdriver, try and wiggle the oil pump drive side to side and back and forth while it's installed. If it moves at all, replace it and the bushing.




I talked to the builder today and he said they did install a new bushing and gear, but I will check it anyway. If it ends up being loose, the replacement would be the entire intermediate shaft and bushing, correct?

Thanks and thanks again!

Last edited by Mosin; 04/27/09 10:02 PM.
Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: Mosin] #300663
04/29/09 05:46 PM
04/29/09 05:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 34
Highland, CA
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Mosin Offline OP
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Posts: 34
Highland, CA
Misfire solved!!! Many many thanks to all who posted suggestions!!

It was the Edelbroke 750 after all. While I was putting together my plan of attack the other night based on all of the excellent suggestions and tips, someone else started an "Eddy 750 problems" thread, which I triangulated with the history of the problem, and the above comments suggesting carb issues. Right about that time I received a PM directive from sloan to go for the carb first, since he had experienced a similar problem with an Eddy 750 that wasn't solvable with jet/rod/spring adjustment. Soo...I threw on the old 650 AVS that was still sitting on my engine builder's shelf this morning and... misfire completely gone.

I'm picking up an 800 Thunder AVS tomorrow (too invested in Eddy parts/knowledge at this point to go Holley) and hopefully that will be the end of the saga. Edelbrock customer service is looking into my options for return/service on the 750 since it is just past warranty. I don't think I'll ever want to run that carb again not matter what they decide, but for the ~400 it cost originally I'd at least like to have a working spare on the shelf.

Thanks again you guys. Mental hospital stint narrowly averted!!



Dave/Mosin and Pandora

Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: Mosin] #300664
04/29/09 06:43 PM
04/29/09 06:43 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,488
N.W. Florida
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Fat_Mike Offline
master
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Posts: 3,488
N.W. Florida
Glad you got it figured out, Mosin. The information you receive on this site (even when it not you looking for it) is fantastic.

Re: Newby seeks Mopar guru wisdom re. elusive misfire [Re: Fat_Mike] #300665
04/29/09 09:49 PM
04/29/09 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
Management Trainee

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Glad you tried the easy stuff first..

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