Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: carnut68]
#2975225
10/17/21 07:20 AM
10/17/21 07:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333 Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,333
Prospect, PA
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The old 509 cam,Team G intake[junk] 3800 convertor 3.91 in an Abody it ran 11.91 @111. . Personally, this is not the example I would use to make the case that you can make power with low compression. I know what you are saying. I didn't build i, but it made power. Mismatched parts and all. Hmmmm. I would call it a good running car, but not good power. Unless the A body weighed 4200 lbs, or the DA was 10,000 ft, that motor does make good power IMO. Of course the details matter.
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: BSB67]
#2975227
10/17/21 07:43 AM
10/17/21 07:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,370 Md.
carnut68
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,370
Md.
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The old 509 cam,Team G intake[junk] 3800 convertor 3.91 in an Abody it ran 11.91 @111. . Personally, this is not the example I would use to make the case that you can make power with low compression. I know what you are saying. I didn't build i, but it made power. Mismatched parts and all. Hmmmm. I would call it a good running car, but not good power. Unless the A body weighed 4200 lbs, or the DA was 10,000 ft, that motor does make good power IMO. Of course the details matter. Ran it @ Keystone about 3600 w/me back then. I'd say around 400hp or less.
America First!
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: 2boltmain]
#2975283
10/17/21 11:28 AM
10/17/21 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 782 wine country
8urvette
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 782
wine country
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In my opinion you should move forward with the 440. I think you want to regardless anyway. Thats kinda how it seems to be. The 383 has all the mods done to it to make more power. INtake, Cam, Headers, EFI, heads. And like I said the best we got out of it (remeber this is a street car) was 300 WHP. Ideally the 440 would be rebuilt and new pistons installed, but it has recent rebuild on it so why not just go with what it has???? Will it make less power than the 383 with the same parts on it? I doubt it. The new setup will look more like this low comp 440 520 ish lift cam- forgot duration sinle plane victor intake tti headers sniper EFI stealth heads the car remains the same as 3500 stall 3.73 gears 65 b body Will this be more of a tire shredding build than a 383 with similar engine parts and the same car setup?
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: 8urvette]
#2975349
10/17/21 03:22 PM
10/17/21 03:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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In my opinion you should move forward with the 440. I think you want to regardless anyway. Thats kinda how it seems to be. The 383 has all the mods done to it to make more power. INtake, Cam, Headers, EFI, heads. And like I said the best we got out of it (remeber this is a street car) was 300 WHP. Ideally the 440 would be rebuilt and new pistons installed, but it has recent rebuild on it so why not just go with what it has???? Will it make less power than the 383 with the same parts on it? I doubt it. The new setup will look more like this low comp 440 520 ish lift cam- forgot duration sinle plane victor intake tti headers sniper EFI stealth heads the car remains the same as 3500 stall 3.73 gears 65 b body Will this be more of a tire shredding build than a 383 with similar engine parts and the same car setup? before deciding I would do the math and work to figure out exactly how much compression the 383 atually has, mabe the same thing on the 440 motor and go from there The Stealth heads have had two different combustion chambers sizes so if you have the smaller 80 CC versions it may make enough difference on both motors true compression ratio to help you decide A 9.0 to 1 compression ratio on a 440 compared to a 10.5 to 1 383 may end up making the same HP with a larger increase in torque on the 440
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2975358
10/17/21 03:42 PM
10/17/21 03:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,637 fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
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Joined: Jan 2004
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fredericksburg,va
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383 and 440, 383 + .030 pop up pistons 0 deck height, 67 stock heads, a ton of compression, 509 cam, torker intake 750 DP. Ran 7.0 1/8th. 440 dead stock (74) low compression, 452 heads with a little bowl cleanup, same cam out of the 383, torker intake 750 DP best was 7.59. Same adjustable rockers on both, same stock (spacer) electronic dist and MSD 6, same coil. 3800 vert and 4.88 gears 14-32 slicks on both cars. Now 383 was in a Dart and 440 in a 64 all steel Savoy. Maybe 200 lbs different My conclusion, you can’t beat compression.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 10/17/21 03:45 PM.
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: cudaman1969]
#2975369
10/17/21 03:57 PM
10/17/21 03:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
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383 and 440, 383 + .030 pop up pistons 0 deck height, 67 stock heads, a ton of compression, 509 cam, torker intake 750 DP. Ran 7.0 1/8th. 440 dead stock (74) low compression, 452 heads with a little bowl cleanup, same cam out of the 383, torker intake 750 DP best was 7.59. Same adjustable rockers on both, same stock (spacer) electronic dist and MSD 6, same coil. 3800 vert and 4.88 gears 14-32 slicks on both cars. Now 383 was in a Dart and 440 in a 64 all steel Savoy. Maybe 200 lbs different My conclusion, you can’t beat compression. And the differences in ET and MPH was Oops, ET was .6 in the 1/8 mile How about 60 ft. times? My BB 1969 Dart GTS weighed 3100 Lbs. without me in it, my lightest 1963 Plymouth Belvedere weighed was 3420 Lb, no heater, radio and with light weight Crager Super trick wheels and race tires on both cars Best ever on the Plymouth was 11.23 at 119.+ MPH, the Dart best was 11.17 at 122. +MPH 100 lbs. added on most cars equals .10 ET in the 1/4 mile BTW , were both cars tuned to for best performance at the same track and similar weather conditions?
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: 8urvette]
#2975986
10/19/21 08:32 AM
10/19/21 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,492
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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No question, I'd use the 440.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon 340, no drivetrain, on blocks behind the barn '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: 8urvette]
#2975999
10/19/21 09:21 AM
10/19/21 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 59 Florida
Sweet5ltr
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Posts: 59
Florida
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Totally different applications. At that level of compression, 3-4% per point is normal (apples to apples displacement). In reality, the 440 has a big bump on power (0-5250 RPM) already on the 383 out of the gate if everything else is equal, so that's not really a good comparison.
383 will peak likely around 5,750 - 6,000 RPM. 440 will peak likely around 5,000 - 5,250 RPM.
At the end of the day, regardless, Torque x RPM / 5252 = HP. Where do you want your power curve?
383 would need more gearing and a higher stall, but HP is HP. On the street, you would - if I dare say it - be better off with LESS torque at low speed. Low speed torque is fun though, so it's a trade-off. Less likely to have problems with an engine that peaks well below 5,500 than one that needs to wind out to 6,250 - 6,500 to make power.
Also, 440 source heads - they are essentially an aluminum OE replacement. Yes, they flow marginally better OOTB (20-ish HP) but really, same cam in both, the 440 will make much more power over a 383 from 0 - 5,500 RPM.
Even after the 440's HP peak, it will still take some RPM (time) for the 383 to make up the 50-60 ft/lb deficit it has against the 440.
So, my vote - 440. Don't worry about the compression, Stealth heads - Performer RPM intake manifold - .530 to .550" lift / 230-235* duration / 110-112 LSA Hydraulic Roller. 3.55 - 3.73 gear. 3,200 - 3,800 RPM converter. Great street car with plenty of power.
1969 Plymouth Road Runner (440 w/ Boost! RIP) now a low-deck 470 with hotchkis suspension, nascar boom tube exhaust, & big brakes.
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Re: 383 or 440???
[Re: 8urvette]
#2976027
10/19/21 10:24 AM
10/19/21 10:24 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
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Will the additonal cubic inches and longer stroke compensate for the lower compression of the 440? Yes.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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