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Re: W2 stroker build - too much main bearing clearance?
[Re: Moparteacher]
#2964464
09/15/21 05:35 PM
09/15/21 05:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,684
W. Kentucky
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Check and see if King offers a -.001” bearing. I know they made a +.001” main. Funny (but sad) story about King bearings here. So a few months back, alright, more than a year now since I started planning this and acquiring the parts, I had originally decided to give the King stuff a try. I ordered both the mains and the connecting rod bearings from Summit...and waited....waited, waited some more. After a couple of months I got tired of it...sure, I didn't need them at the moment, but I was itching to get the block over to the machine shop. Needless to say, I cancelled that order and shipped the FM stuff straight to the shop the very next day. What irked me about this was that I actually called King directly about this delay, gave them my Summit order (which they found), and was told these would ship out "...within another week...". That was around the tail end of the first "wait" event...lol, it never got any better afterwards. So from a customer service perspective I wasn't impressed. So now looking at this again I see that I can get a 0.0005" oversized bearing (choice of up or down as well, so that's nice), unfortunately their ETA shows December timeframe right now. Based on my prior experience with King I trust that statement...NOT!!! Besides, really if all I'm making up is 0.0005", well like pittsburghracer said, I probably should find something else to do instead! ha... Gents, appreciate everyone's great feedback. I'm going to run with what I have, will measure the housing dimensions as well, just to know what those are. Thanks! Is that .0005" per shell or .0005" for upper and lower combo? If it's .0005" per shell then you can always replace just one shell with an oversized, without issue. One of two ways to compensate for the loose clearances IMO, run a heavier oil or run an HV pump, but probably not both. If you've got HV pump in place already then you may want to sneak-up (actually down) on the viscosity. Start with maybe a 20w50 and observe idle pressure at full temp and then move down in viscosity until you pressure starts dropping below desired at idle. All testing done at operating temp. But, there is definitely a correlation between journal area, clearance and sufficient hydroscopic wedge to protect the journal. Oil pressure alone doesn't determine the level of protection. As for a HV pump, reconsider if you choose to close-up those clearances, and avoid high pressure all together (not that you ever stated such). Here's a fwiw. I recently primed a fresh 383 on the engine stand with 6 quarts in a Hemi pan with Milodon full windage tray and IJ crank scraper. Valve covers and valley tray off. HV ported oil pump with the MIlodon high pressure spring. Similar clearances. Quickly gained 80psi and all looked good so I continued to run the drill for a few more minutes while observing. It took about three minutes and I started to get splurging (air bubbles) coming around the flat tappet .0005" undersize lifters and out the spray holes on the ductile rockers yet the pressure gauge held steady at 80psi. The longer I ran the drill, the worst the cavitation in the pan yet maintaining 80 psi on the gauge the whole time. I was shocked! I then switched to a standard pressure spring in the pump. 60 psi, similar more-than-sufficient flow rate out the rockers and around the lifters, but after nearly 20 minutes no air bubbles, cavitation or drop in max pressure of 60psi. 10w30 Joe Gibbs Driven break-in oil FWIW. I doubt I'll ever run a HP oil pump spring again and the next build will seriously reconsider the HV. Good luck on whatever you choose. How would you results in a static engine compare to a running engine?
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Re: W2 stroker build - too much main bearing clearance?
[Re: justinp61]
#2964509
09/15/21 07:23 PM
09/15/21 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 608
Boise
Moparteacher
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 608
Boise
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Check and see if King offers a -.001” bearing. I know they made a +.001” main. Funny (but sad) story about King bearings here. So a few months back, alright, more than a year now since I started planning this and acquiring the parts, I had originally decided to give the King stuff a try. I ordered both the mains and the connecting rod bearings from Summit...and waited....waited, waited some more. After a couple of months I got tired of it...sure, I didn't need them at the moment, but I was itching to get the block over to the machine shop. Needless to say, I cancelled that order and shipped the FM stuff straight to the shop the very next day. What irked me about this was that I actually called King directly about this delay, gave them my Summit order (which they found), and was told these would ship out "...within another week...". That was around the tail end of the first "wait" event...lol, it never got any better afterwards. So from a customer service perspective I wasn't impressed. So now looking at this again I see that I can get a 0.0005" oversized bearing (choice of up or down as well, so that's nice), unfortunately their ETA shows December timeframe right now. Based on my prior experience with King I trust that statement...NOT!!! Besides, really if all I'm making up is 0.0005", well like pittsburghracer said, I probably should find something else to do instead! ha... Gents, appreciate everyone's great feedback. I'm going to run with what I have, will measure the housing dimensions as well, just to know what those are. Thanks! Is that .0005" per shell or .0005" for upper and lower combo? If it's .0005" per shell then you can always replace just one shell with an oversized, without issue. One of two ways to compensate for the loose clearances IMO, run a heavier oil or run an HV pump, but probably not both. If you've got HV pump in place already then you may want to sneak-up (actually down) on the viscosity. Start with maybe a 20w50 and observe idle pressure at full temp and then move down in viscosity until you pressure starts dropping below desired at idle. All testing done at operating temp. But, there is definitely a correlation between journal area, clearance and sufficient hydroscopic wedge to protect the journal. Oil pressure alone doesn't determine the level of protection. As for a HV pump, reconsider if you choose to close-up those clearances, and avoid high pressure all together (not that you ever stated such). Here's a fwiw. I recently primed a fresh 383 on the engine stand with 6 quarts in a Hemi pan with Milodon full windage tray and IJ crank scraper. Valve covers and valley tray off. HV ported oil pump with the MIlodon high pressure spring. Similar clearances. Quickly gained 80psi and all looked good so I continued to run the drill for a few more minutes while observing. It took about three minutes and I started to get splurging (air bubbles) coming around the flat tappet .0005" undersize lifters and out the spray holes on the ductile rockers yet the pressure gauge held steady at 80psi. The longer I ran the drill, the worst the cavitation in the pan yet maintaining 80 psi on the gauge the whole time. I was shocked! I then switched to a standard pressure spring in the pump. 60 psi, similar more-than-sufficient flow rate out the rockers and around the lifters, but after nearly 20 minutes no air bubbles, cavitation or drop in max pressure of 60psi. 10w30 Joe Gibbs Driven break-in oil FWIW. I doubt I'll ever run a HP oil pump spring again and the next build will seriously reconsider the HV. Good luck on whatever you choose. How would you results in a static engine compare to a running engine? Speculation only, but warm oil would be less likely to cavitate, but a running engine would hold more oil out of the oil pan increasing the possibility of cavitation. So, anyone's guess without a run stand, clear covers, and/or internal camera work.
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Re: W2 stroker build - too much main bearing clearance?
[Re: justinp61]
#2964644
09/16/21 09:50 AM
09/16/21 09:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,362
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,362
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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It looks like I may need to have parts in hand before I tear my engine down this winter. I strongly recommend you go ahead and start collecting parts...now.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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