Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
#2954481
08/16/21 10:38 PM
08/16/21 10:38 PM
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Michael Ecks
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I know the late rollers almost all came with them. Did early magnums use the windage tray? R/T model engines? Pace trucks? Crate engines?
I seem to be in a petty argument on facebook. I'm following the advice in How to Build Big-Inch Mopar Small Blocks by Jim Szilagyi where he said that the factory windage tray was too close to the crank on 360's and not to use them. I'm trying to help someone rebuilding a motor home 360, yes a motor home not a race engine. From all I've ever read none of the magnums ever came with them, period. I figure when they took a serious look at them when they re-engineered the small block for the magnum line they found out that they don't help. (talking production engines, not purpose built race engines for which I know there are better options starting with the milodon tray and going up to crank scrapers.
I know I've read here there some racers make more power without them, with time slips to back it up. I also know opening up the slots and adding more can improve them.
Looking around I don't see any of the crate engines listing windage trays in their specs. What I see instead are upgraded baffled oil pans, and deeper pans to get the rotating assembly away from the oil pool.
Am I wrong? Happy to keep learning if I am.
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#2954558
08/17/21 09:04 AM
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Sniper
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Chrysler quit using windage trays long before the magnums were thought of. Why? Probably had more to do with money than effectiveness but I am guessing. Oil control is an area of a lot of aftermarket guesswork. Deep sump doesn't do diddly if your oil return path includes having to go past the crank to get there. Gale Banks did some research into diff covers and how they affect lubrication that I seriously doubt anyone did similar with engine oil control. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XgpmBR-3Fc Now imagine your crank winging around, the return oil dropping down and getting spun up by the crank. Deep sump? lol, no help. Crank scraper, maybe. Windage tray too close?? How did he come to that conclusion? Baffles are generally there to keep oil around the pickup, not off the crank. So when I see some engine oil control "guru" post up a video showing the research he did, similar to the Banks video, I might consider his thoughts. Till then it's just guesswork.
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#2954572
08/17/21 09:51 AM
08/17/21 09:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Guitar Jones
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The late roller engines didn't come with windage trays either.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2954608
08/17/21 11:49 AM
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NachoRT74
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Per what I know, the windage tray was part of the Magnum engine setup along with the HP manifolds, unsilenced air cleaner ( on those years were they exist ), HP cam, dual timing chain setup, sping valve with dampeners... That's at least with Big blocks
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2954626
08/17/21 12:17 PM
08/17/21 12:17 PM
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larrymopar360
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This is something I've been wondering about lately too. And aren't there some that argue that they limit low rpm such as at idle oil to the lifters? Is this known as splash?
Facts are stubborn things.
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#2954656
08/17/21 01:06 PM
08/17/21 01:06 PM
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JohnRR
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A crank scraper or a windage screen would be better than a windage tray. The oil needs to get back to the sump as fast as physically possible and a tray slows that process. On factory big block trays I have added louvers and drilled holes to help the oil get to where it needs to be. An aftermarket tray has added louvers for a reason.
as to why Chrysler stopped , ask them , they will tell you , but I'm sure it had a lot to do with cost.
Last edited by JohnRR; 08/17/21 01:08 PM.
running up my post count some more .
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#2954714
08/17/21 02:56 PM
08/17/21 02:56 PM
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John_Kunkel
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Bill (Grumpy) Jenkins probably did more oil control research than anybody in his time; his conclusion was that a traditional windage tray might keep the sump oil off the spinning crank but it also provides a nearby surface for the oil slung off the rods to ricochet back up into the spinning assembly.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: NachoRT74]
#2954719
08/17/21 03:14 PM
08/17/21 03:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Michael Ecks
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Per what I know, the windage tray was part of the Magnum engine setup along with the HP manifolds, unsilenced air cleaner ( on those years were they exist ), HP cam, dual timing chain setup, sping valve with dampeners... That's at least with Big blocks Talking about the early 90s -2000s Magnum 5.2 and Magnum 5.9, not the early 340 and big block magnums.
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2954720
08/17/21 03:18 PM
08/17/21 03:18 PM
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Michael Ecks
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The late roller engines didn't come with windage trays either. I have two roller 360's that would disagree, so they started using them again at some point. One I personally pulled from a bone stock church van guarantee no one added that, and the other was pulled from a ramcharger best I recall.
"The happiness of your life depends upon the quality of your thoughts" ~ Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Michael Ecks]
#2954821
08/17/21 07:13 PM
08/17/21 07:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Perhaps some 360-3 truck engines but I've pulled a lot of oil pans off those motors and never saw one.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: 360view]
#2954946
08/18/21 08:12 AM
08/18/21 08:12 AM
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Posts: 20,213 Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
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Kevin Johnson from Johnson/Ishihara once claimed he designed a system for the mod motor Ford that gained 50 horse, but Ford said it wasn't economically feasible to use in production.
He also told me he modified a Jeffrey tray for the Slants to gain an additional 17 horsepower.
I asked him to provide some kind of proof to both claims and he refused.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: Did any magnum engines come with windage trays? If not, why?
[Re: Gavin]
#2964584
09/15/21 11:08 PM
09/15/21 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,626 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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I just took apart an original never opened up 70 383 HP that came out of a Roadrunner and it had a windage tray, this was just last month. As far as I am concerned that is the only "Magnum" engine worth noting...LOL
Last edited by Rhinodart; 09/15/21 11:10 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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