Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: Sniper]
#2909145
04/11/21 03:42 PM
04/11/21 03:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,522 Western Colorado High Desert
moparmarks
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,522
Western Colorado High Desert
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Its right there in the building a Magnum V8 book by Larry Shepard under crate engines.
Neither the 300 or 380 hp crate motors used the R/T head according to your information. Only the 402 crate motor used it and no one was talking about that engine.
72 Satellite Sebring Plus 440, 72 Dart 5.9 4-spd, 68 Valiant, 73 W200, 78 D100 sb, 78 D200, 98 DAKOTA, . Moparmarks Parts & Restorations Desert Mopar Metal Grand Jct. CO 970-261-7039 http://moparmark.com/motormangj@gmail.com
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Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: moparmarks]
#2909173
04/11/21 04:47 PM
04/11/21 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
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I Live Here
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Neither the 300 or 380 hp crate motors used the R/T head according to your information.
I didn't say they (the 300 and 380 hp) did, I said there was a third option, four if you count the stroker. I did confuse the aluminum head which I assumed was a variant of the R/T head but looking at the specs it really is by itself aside from being interchangeable.
"I think its got a hemi"
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Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: gdonovan]
#2909180
04/11/21 05:29 PM
04/11/21 05:29 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,605 nowhere
Sniper
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master
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 6,605
nowhere
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Thanks for info sniper. Yes, those crate 5.9's were identical other than cam and intake. No, one version came with the upgraded R/T heads till they ran out. We were specifically talking about the 300 and 380 hp versions and you claimed "No, one version came with the upgraded R/T heads till they ran out" You did not say there was a third version, you stated I was wrong.
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Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: Sniper]
#2909600
04/12/21 08:21 PM
04/12/21 08:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,060 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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Worked there almost 9 years, still remember a few things.
Springs, locks and retainers were changed on the .501/.513 cam variants per BOM. You absolutely do not want to run that kind of a cam with the wimpy stock valve springs.
At the start, The entire engine (not just the block) began as production pulled just for us, The parts added/painted Orange at Cummins recon. These were generally good values but were not At all “race engines”. Race engine builders would sometimes tear them down and complain the clearances were the same as a 1999 truck engine. Go figure...that’s what they started out as.
When production stopped, we then ate up OE service long block stock. Slight cost increase.
When that was gone, we ate up OE service short block stock and added OE service heads. It cost more, the price went up.
Then we ran out of OE heads and tooled up the magnum r/t iron heads. They flowed better than stock. With the r/t head swap, The 380hp variant pulled easy low 400s in testing and was Re-rated to 390hp. The magnum r/t heads were not without issues, most problems were Due to the type of tooling used to make them. I Could go on for a long time on the topic but it was Somewhat Hobbled from the get go with the wrong type of tooling. Still, they had impressive potential “For what they were” as articles and testing by Dulcich back then proved.
The price went up on crate engines again due to the heads’ expense.
The aftermarket noticed there were no OE heads to be had, and EQ tooled up.
Then we ran out of short blocks. The solution came from reman. Reman drove the price up a whole lot. The price was high, and some were understandably Disappointed they were getting a bored out rebuild instead of brand new. The reman versions had a slightly higher perceived quality piston, A hypereutectic, but most all other specs were the same.
Then reman kept saying they weren’t satisfied with Core quality, and that 1 block in 20 was good enough for performance crate engine Use. Personally I didn’t buy it. But Whether true or made up, they wanted out.
The last nail in the coffin was a super expensive deal, based on a brand new MP aftermarket race block version built By a pro race engine builder. These were very nice pieces but the high price tag was a deal killer for most folks. I always assumed more of these were given to show car builders for advertising than were sold.
Around this time a blowhard magazine writer who will go unnamed basically said Magnum R/T heads were overpriced garbage and EQ heads rule so RT heads were killed off, replaced by repackaged EQ heads. I heard about this and promptly collected A few RT heads for later, just in case.
Now, EQ has also got rid of the product but some surfing shows a made in China casting that looks Suspiciously close to the EQ, and of course the price is next to nothing.
The 4” stroke iron head version was probably my favorite, as the output made a lot Of folks happy.
Looking back: some catalogued products you’d think were widely used were not popular AT ALL.... Other items that seem like almost stock replacement (iron heads) were actually pretty darn killer/sleeper products.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2909679
04/13/21 05:09 AM
04/13/21 05:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
|
Worked there almost 9 years, still remember a few things.
Springs, locks and retainers were changed on the .501/.513 cam variants per BOM. You absolutely do not want to run that kind of a cam with the wimpy stock valve springs.
At the start, The entire engine (not just the block) began as production pulled just for us, The parts added/painted Orange at Cummins recon. These were generally good values but were not At all “race engines”. Race engine builders would sometimes tear them down and complain the clearances were the same as a 1999 truck engine. Go figure...that’s what they started out as.
When production stopped, we then ate up OE service long block stock. Slight cost increase.
When that was gone, we ate up OE service short block stock and added OE service heads. It cost more, the price went up.
Then we ran out of OE heads and tooled up the magnum r/t iron heads. They flowed better than stock. With the r/t head swap, The 380hp variant pulled easy low 400s in testing and was Re-rated to 390hp. The magnum r/t heads were not without issues, most problems were Due to the type of tooling used to make them. I Could go on for a long time on the topic but it was Somewhat Hobbled from the get go with the wrong type of tooling. Still, they had impressive potential “For what they were” as articles and testing by Dulcich back then proved.
The price went up on crate engines again due to the heads’ expense.
The aftermarket noticed there were no OE heads to be had, and EQ tooled up.
Then we ran out of short blocks. The solution came from reman. Reman drove the price up a whole lot. The price was high, and some were understandably Disappointed they were getting a bored out rebuild instead of brand new. The reman versions had a slightly higher perceived quality piston, A hypereutectic, but most all other specs were the same.
Then reman kept saying they weren’t satisfied with Core quality, and that 1 block in 20 was good enough for performance crate engine Use. Personally I didn’t buy it. But Whether true or made up, they wanted out.
The last nail in the coffin was a super expensive deal, based on a brand new MP aftermarket race block version built By a pro race engine builder. These were very nice pieces but the high price tag was a deal killer for most folks. I always assumed more of these were given to show car builders for advertising than were sold.
Around this time a blowhard magazine writer who will go unnamed basically said Magnum R/T heads were overpriced garbage and EQ heads rule so RT heads were killed off, replaced by repackaged EQ heads. I heard about this and promptly collected A few RT heads for later, just in case.
Now, EQ has also got rid of the product but some surfing shows a made in China casting that looks Suspiciously close to the EQ, and of course the price is next to nothing.
The 4” stroke iron head version was probably my favorite, as the output made a lot Of folks happy.
Looking back: some catalogued products you’d think were widely used were not popular AT ALL.... Other items that seem like almost stock replacement (iron heads) were actually pretty darn killer/sleeper products. Thank you- Your recollection matches mine, the packages were always changing due to parts running out. Also if thinking about buying heads from China when Relentless Performance was doing business I looked at purchasing a pallet or two of new China cast 2.2 SOHC heads and they had a 50% failure rate during routine pressure testing.
"I think its got a hemi"
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Re: Old 5.9 crate magnums
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2909709
04/13/21 08:31 AM
04/13/21 08:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958 Oakdale CT
gdonovan
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,958
Oakdale CT
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Yeah, that's a mighty high failure rate!!
I swear they were using aluminum from recycled cans cast in a backyard foundry.
"I think its got a hemi"
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