Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: beatgoeson]
#2904622
03/31/21 02:03 PM
03/31/21 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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For some reason, American car makers haven’t been able to build small cars profitably. The make bank on SUVs and trucks. I guess they are giving up on cars and focusing on SUVs and trucks. Time will tell if they made a smart move, or if they will come to regret giving up on cars. I bought a Dart in 2014 and it’s been a great car. It has close to 100K miles and still has no rust even in this climate. I was laughing a few weeks ago when I saw news stories and videos about new Ford trucks that have rusty hardware and axles already. My Dart still is nice and clean underneath after many salty winters. But my car gets no respect, American car makers built enough dogs over the years everyone assumes that any car they build will be a POS I guess. I traded a 2008 Focus on the Dart, that car was the most trouble free car I’ve ever owned. The next generation Focuses had a terrible transmission though, so Ford apparently ruined that car’s reputation with that transmission. For general driving around chores and commuting, I like a small economical car. I hope my Dart lasts forever because otherwise I may have to break down someday and do something I swore I’d never do, buy a Toyleta or Hyundai.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2904625
03/31/21 02:09 PM
03/31/21 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,423 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,423
Kalispell Mt.
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For some reason, American car makers haven’t been able to build small cars profitably. The make bank on SUVs and trucks. I guess they are giving up on cars and focusing on SUVs and trucks. Time will tell if they made a smart move, or if they will come to regret giving up on cars. I bought a Dart in 2014 and it’s been a great car. It has close to 100K miles and still has no rust even in this climate. I was laughing a few weeks ago when I saw news stories and videos about new Ford trucks that have rusty hardware and axles already. My Dart still is nice and clean underneath after many salty winters. But my car gets no respect, American car makers built enough dogs over the years everyone assumes that any car they build will be a POS I guess. I traded a 2008 Focus on the Dart, that car was the most trouble free car I’ve ever owned. The next generation Focuses had a terrible transmission though, so Ford apparently ruined that car’s reputation with that transmission. For general driving around chores and commuting, I like a small economical car. I hope my Dart lasts forever because otherwise I may have to break down someday and do something I swore I’d never do, buy a Toyleta or Hyundai. I think the reason they "can't make money on cars" is just a new twist on the old planned obsolescence scheme, they build crap cars so nobody will want them so they can make more money selling SUVs that are allegedly better quality.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#2904630
03/31/21 02:18 PM
03/31/21 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341 Crook County, ILL
Mastershake340
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,341
Crook County, ILL
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When I was ordering a new Ram a few months ago, I mentioned my Dart to the veteran CDJR salesman I’m working with, and he said when the Darts were out, they were hard to sell because FCA never offered incentives on them to help sell them. It sounded like they invested a lot in designing them but put no effort into helping dealers sell them. My “mini Charger” parks outside, gets driven year round all weather, yet after a wash still looks brand new. Drives tight with no rattles. Seems like a very well designed well built car, they should have sold a million of them, but they didn’t ....
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Mastershake340]
#2904639
03/31/21 02:42 PM
03/31/21 02:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,478 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,478
Michigan
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For some reason, American car makers haven’t been able to build small cars profitably. The make bank on SUVs and trucks. I guess they are giving up on cars and focusing on SUVs and trucks. Time will tell if they made a smart move, or if they will come to regret giving up on cars. I bought a Dart in 2014 and it’s been a great car. It has close to 100K miles and still has no rust even in this climate. I was laughing a few weeks ago when I saw news stories and videos about new Ford trucks that have rusty hardware and axles already. My Dart still is nice and clean underneath after many salty winters. But my car gets no respect, American car makers built enough dogs over the years everyone assumes that any car they build will be a POS I guess. I traded a 2008 Focus on the Dart, that car was the most trouble free car I’ve ever owned. The next generation Focuses had a terrible transmission though, so Ford apparently ruined that car’s reputation with that transmission. For general driving around chores and commuting, I like a small economical car. I hope my Dart lasts forever because otherwise I may have to break down someday and do something I swore I’d never do, buy a Toyleta or Hyundai. LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: oldjonny]
#2904644
03/31/21 03:23 PM
03/31/21 03:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,337 home of the Buckeyes
Butterscotch71
Lost Title
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Lost Title
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,337
home of the Buckeyes
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LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.
I've had a couple toyotas through the years, and while dependable, they rusted much faster than anything else and were the most boring vehicles I've ever owned.
addict:to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively ....hmmmm
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Butterscotch71]
#2904669
03/31/21 04:51 PM
03/31/21 04:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,478 Michigan
oldjonny
Don't argue with me.
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Don't argue with me.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,478
Michigan
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LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.
I've had a couple toyotas through the years, and while dependable, they rusted much faster than anything else and were the most boring vehicles I've ever owned. LOL. If by 'boring' you mean that you do not get to personally know the service department manager and the entire staff at the dealership, then yes, boring. I finally went to the dealer at about 250K miles and asked the service manager if there was anything that I really needed to do on the car to keep it going. He laughed and said keep driving it and no. I will take 'boring' all day long for my DD
Never, ever argue with an IDIOT. They will drag you to their level and then beat you with their years of experience
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: beatgoeson]
#2904674
03/31/21 05:01 PM
03/31/21 05:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,609 Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,609
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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I still will always walk instead of owning a Japanese, Italian, Korean, or German car, and my heritage is German. Of course I do not drive cars, no use for them. My wife has a 2015 Chrysler 200 and before that an 04 Sebring convertible. Zero issues with the 200, and the only problem with the Sebring was the aluminum strut pucks in the rear that turned to dust with 200K miles on it about a year before we sold it. I have no idea what she will own after the 200 is done, hopefully it will last another 20 years...LOL.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: oldjonny]
#2904675
03/31/21 05:02 PM
03/31/21 05:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719 Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.
I've had a couple toyotas through the years, and while dependable, they rusted much faster than anything else and were the most boring vehicles I've ever owned. LOL. If by 'boring' you mean that you do not get to personally know the service department manager and the entire staff at the dealership, then yes, boring. I finally went to the dealer at about 250K miles and asked the service manager if there was anything that I really needed to do on the car to keep it going. He laughed and said keep driving it and no. I will take 'boring' all day long for my DD Dont change the tranny fluid, new fluid (with all the detergent) will clean the clutches bare. I am leaving mine, even with "only" 150,000. They're not serviceable for a reason, goes for all vehicles.
Last edited by SRT6776; 03/31/21 05:03 PM.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2904678
03/31/21 05:06 PM
03/31/21 05:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719 Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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I still will always walk instead of owning a Japanese, Italian, Korean, or German car, and my heritage is German. Of course I do not drive cars, no use for them. My wife has a 2015 Chrysler 200 and before that an 04 Sebring convertible. Zero issues with the 200, and the only problem with the Sebring was the aluminum strut pucks in the rear that turned to dust with 200K miles on it about a year before we sold it. I have no idea what she will own after the 200 is done, hopefully it will last another 20 years...LOL. Most of the smaller CUV's they replaced the cars with are just jacked up cars with a different name and body, for example the Cherokee is the same chassis as the dart/ 200. They all do it. Same car with a better view of the road
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: Neil]
#2904712
03/31/21 08:00 PM
03/31/21 08:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719 Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
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I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
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As trucks and SUVs get bigger and bigger people in cars may feel vulnerable and no longer safe driving them as well. Hard to see if your in a car surrounded by lifted quad cab trucks. Exactly what I went through, I couldn't see anything as I was one of the lone cars in a sea of larger vehicles. I noticed it ALL the time and now I have a jacked up 4x4 lol, its refreshing being able to see again! And not just for that reason, its also extremely nice being able to use my vehicle now. I go camping in the back country with it, can tow with it, go off roading in 4-low, lots of room for the dog and gear, good in all weather conditions, roof racks, I've used all the room with the seats down as a rolling storage unit before - versus, a car, to get groceries with and go back and forth to work.
Last edited by SRT6776; 03/31/21 08:03 PM.
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: SRT6776]
#2904748
03/31/21 09:34 PM
03/31/21 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318 Southern Maryland
klunick
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,318
Southern Maryland
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Possibly a profit issue. Ford was selling 200k fusions when they stopped making them. You can't make a profit on 200k units???? BS. Take a look at the prices of new vehicles. Ford was making 15% on cars and 35%+ on the trucks. Ergo, stop making cars. Oddly enough I was sitting at the light this morning and noted 1/2 the vehicles going past me were still cars. That said, There must be a market. I only own 1 truck but have 4 cars not including the hotrods.
67 Barracuda FB
69 Superbee
"Southern Maryland: If you want a good looking woman, you had better bring her with you"
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Re: Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?
[Re: klunick]
#2904769
03/31/21 10:34 PM
03/31/21 10:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,804 Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,804
Castlegar, BC, Canada
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America's car companies have lost the plot. I can only imagine this is what it must've been like in the mid-50's when great marks that survived even the depression began to fall one by one.
Hudson.... Nash.... Packard.... Kaiser.... Willys.... Studebaker.... even claiming DeSoto.
In my time, I've seen Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac die.
I've seen the birth and death of the "Sport Compact" range of cars. We're on the precipice of seeing American-made 2-door cars disappear!! That just blows my mind.
But, American car makers have forgotten two things that would draw people to a car: Style and Substance.
I'm sure we can all agree that cars today are not.... pleasing to look at. There are very, VERY few exceptions. I thought the Dart and 200 were cute - I was waiting for a sportier, 2-door version to come out. The 2015 Mustang is pretty darn good looking, dare I say it's one of, if not THE most attractive car to come out of Detroit in a long, long time. But with every update, they're just taking a hatchet to the poor thing. Not all of us, but I'm sure some of us have sat in the garage, with or without compadres and just sat and admired your vintage car. My AMC Javelin is gorgeous and beautifully sculpted. E-body Challengers and Cudas with their simple yet aggressive style. A Charger with it's full-width tail lights and flying buttress roof panels.... I mean, these are damn-near pieces of ART in comparison to modern gobbledy-[censored]!
Nothing seems to stir people any more. Or if it does, it costs an ever-loving fortune!!! Detroit tells us "Nobody buys 2-door sport coupes anymore." Huh. Well, somebody better tell BMW that because they've damn-near cornered the market there. Honda, too.
Or how about a small, sporty car that's cute, fun and affordable? Oh crap. I had to throw that word in there. A few years back, I went and looked at one of those little BRZ/FR-S/GT-86 that Subaru/Toyota had come up with. Fantastic Premise, great little car, sexy styling but oh mylanta..... I dunno about the USA, but up here in Canada I spec'd one out that couldn't quite match up to the STANDARD EQUIPMENT of a Mustang, and the FR-S was $33,000 plus tax. I had to pay extra for an f****** ARMREST. I was about $5000 shy of a Mustang GT that came with more features as standard and more than double the power.
I don't think there is a single car today for sale for under $20,000 in either Canada or the USA. Hyundai used to have their Accent for $9,999.99 and that wasn't that long ago!!
Personally, I'm disgusted by the absolute useless garbage they ladle into cars today. Automatic Braking; Radar-Guided Cruise Control; One-button parallel parking..... Those are all the things a person should learn when driving. If they can't do those things: they shouldn't be driving!!! I refuse to pay money for something I'll never use.
I almost think we need something revolutionary. A modern Model T. Something that provides good, reliable, comfortable transportation at a reasonable price. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer younger drivers: A) we've practically priced them OUT of the market. Anything older and *cool* is a small fortune; and anything modern and reliable is..... a small fortune. The average kid making minimum wage would have to save every penny he earned for 2-3 years to buy a used chunk of $hit.
I think we need to go back to crank windows; manual adjusted seats, manual steering. Hell, my first car was an '82 Honda Civic! It had all those things, a snippy little motor, 5 speed gearbox and ran for 2 weeks on $12 worth of gas. I think the federal regulations on cars too has choked them out of the market. Making something small and fuel efficient isn't going to be 5-star crash rated; hence the gigantic bro-dozers people drive today.
We need to get back to basics. Could you imagine the fuel economy of something like an '82 Civic with a MODERN, fuel-injected engine??? But some Ralph Nader / Karen type would complain "it's unsafe" and destroy any chance it had.
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
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