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Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2839249
10/30/20 12:19 PM
10/30/20 12:19 PM
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moparx Offline
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the "key dance" worked for my 95 mini van [and earlier ones], so it should work for your pickup.
i have been told many times the "key dance" works for the 96-2000 OBD2 mini vans, but i have never been able to get it to work.
the codes you have listed look like the ones i have used before.
try it and let us know.
beer

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: moparx] #2839654
10/31/20 10:17 AM
10/31/20 10:17 AM
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Will do, Moparx. So far the truck is running perfectly again, and other than the new annoying rattle at idle, I have no complaints in the performance or fuel mileage now.

I think Nitrous nailed it with his advice. Sync signal. Codes will be pulled Sunday or Monday. Halloween is a huge thing in my house, so spent all Thursday, Yesterday and today decorating, so no time to do anything other than driving. Power is better than pre trans rebuild, no shuddering, no failure to crank.

Last edited by 46rhRebuild; 10/31/20 10:20 AM.
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2845010
11/11/20 06:35 PM
11/11/20 06:35 PM
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No codes thrown. Truck just kept running with a slight miss at highways speeds, until it didn't. Last hot afternoon the misfiring came back with a vengeance. Left me on the side of the road. When it cooled down, limped it to a mechanic. Diagnosed crankshaft position sensor. I'm having a Delphi one put in on Monday. Did alittle reading up on that sensor and it can cause the issues that I've been seeing, just like Nitrous said. Also could have been damaged during the Trans install, also like Nitrous said. Will report back after Monday.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2856802
12/07/20 09:36 PM
12/07/20 09:36 PM
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I apologize for the long delay. I did not have anything to report until today.

The distributor, coil, crankshaft position sensor, spark plugs and wires have all been replaced. Everything is Delphi, Napa, or NGK, so good quality replacement components. The truck still has the intermittent miss at highway speeds, and sometimes when rolling forward from a stop. Overdrive engagement is intermittent, but the fluid remains bright and clean. No burning smell whatsoever.

Today the truck threw the first Code. Code 37. It appears that we have a torque converter issue.

Transman, do I need to have the transmission pulled and the torque converter replaced? This is a Precision of New Hampton converter, so am hoping that there is a warranty of some kind that will help with this.

Last edited by 46rhRebuild; 12/07/20 09:38 PM.
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2856824
12/07/20 10:18 PM
12/07/20 10:18 PM
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I’ll have to see the trigger requirements to set code 37.

Launching the truck from a stop shouldn’t involve the lockup circuit so I’m puzzled what the launch miss could have to do with the converter.

Overdrive intermittently applying - there are several things that have to happen for OD. No Park or Neutral signal from the PRNDL switch, no brake pedal switch signal, no overtemp trans fluid signal, ambient temp and water temp sensor signal has to be above 65 degrees if I recall, may be others.

If you do a stall test, is there ever any missing?

You might want to ask around and see if any dealers will do a data recording when it act s up, we used to have a device called a Co-Pilot that recorded about 45 seconds after an event. Was very useful in this type of thing.

Works sort of like a RacePak does today.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: A727Tflite] #2856835
12/07/20 10:39 PM
12/07/20 10:39 PM
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The miss from launch will appear within the first two seconds, and happens most often when the temp is under 40 degrees. I don't know if that information helps at all, sir.

As for the stall test, my local mechanic put the truck into gear, applied the brakes and did his best to make the truck stall. Nothing. No missing, nothing but clean firing. I'm not certain if this qualifies, but this is the only test of this type that has been performed on this truck. He was testing to see if my fuel pump was possibly causing this, or a fouled injector. He's 73 and has been at this his whole life, so I don't question his methods. He's the one who was finally able to get the truck to throw a code. He went out driving it for an hour to get it to duplicate the miss that I've been seeing.

Unfortunately this mechanic is the only one in my town that I haven't had bad experiences with on this build. I can try calling in the towns near here to see if someone can do a recording, but I'm not confident about finding anyone around here, and will have to treat this option as a last ditch one.

It's really odd with my OD engagement. I can be driving along on a 75 degree day, and the OD won't engage. I can drive for 45 mins and have it engage once, and then the minute I slow down it drops out of OD, and won't reengage again. I kept chalking it up to the break in period, and maybe the thermistor not reading a high enough temp. But I'm starting to believe that my TC is not locking up. Could this be a faulty Solenoid? The valve body was professionally rebuilt by Central Valve Bodies. I took the valve body apart and cleaned it and let it dry really well, after the water intrusion, making sure to put all of the check balls back in their correct locations.

Also, fuel mileage has dropped significantly. I'm burning half again as much fuel, recently. I have been told that this can be caused by either my torque converter, or by something in my fuel system. My mechanic insisted that I replace my pcv valve and my plugs and wires myself before he would go any further. He has been consistently trying to save me money through this nightmare.




Last edited by 46rhRebuild; 12/08/20 08:26 AM.
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2856931
12/08/20 08:41 AM
12/08/20 08:41 AM
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Yes, no OD and you will burn more fuel.

As for no overdrive, what you might consider is to control that yourself.

You would have to make a small jumper harness that would attach to the three pin connector at the trans. Power to the center pin with key on, then the front pin is overdrive and the rear is lockup ground wires you would control from the cab.

Once in third gear you can ground either or both to control OD and/or lockup. If you consistently get them then your problem lies outside the trans.

I would try that first, sounds like you would have no problem making this harness.

A stuck brake switch will also prevent lockup.

Another quick test before you make that harness, take it for a ride and see if cruise control works all the time. If not, very good chance brake switch or PRNDL.
One more item TPS. While they act up more on the diesel trucks they do act up on gas. You would have to monitor with an analog voltmeter, not digital. The needle should never jump around, it should move very smoothly. Idle around .65 and at WOT should be be around 3.5-4.0 if I recall correctly.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: A727Tflite] #2856932
12/08/20 08:49 AM
12/08/20 08:49 AM
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While the co-pilot was a neat lil tool, finding a dealer that could actually set one up for a vehicle that old falls into the “slim and none” dept....

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: J_BODY] #2856975
12/08/20 10:48 AM
12/08/20 10:48 AM
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Thank you, Transman. I'm in class right now and will be asking my professor to help me design a wire harness that will do all of these functions. I have also forwarded all of this information on to my mechanic. I will report back my findings, as soon as I have actionable data. Thank you again for your help, sir.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857015
12/08/20 12:18 PM
12/08/20 12:18 PM
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Would this three toggle switch diagram be correct?

KIMG1715.JPGKIMG1716.JPG
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857068
12/08/20 01:46 PM
12/08/20 01:46 PM
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See attached

2B641166-478B-4CF7-AA94-57A8E0ABD37F.jpeg
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: A727Tflite] #2857083
12/08/20 02:25 PM
12/08/20 02:25 PM
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Thank you, sir. You just saved me from shorting out my solenoids. I'm really glad that I asked you for clarification.

I had totally missed that they were being supplied power, and just needed ground. Instead I was trying to power everything, and that would have been bad, I'm thinking.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857091
12/08/20 02:36 PM
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Here is a pic of the solenoid layout.

My memory is fading, better check the center pin of your existing harness to see if it is 5 or 12 volts. My recollection is 5.

FB8B3DB7-F6C0-4EC9-AEE6-A7A632EC5482.jpeg
Last edited by Transman; 12/08/20 02:45 PM.
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: A727Tflite] #2857212
12/08/20 05:45 PM
12/08/20 05:45 PM
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I will definitely check the voltage over the weekend. I can't make a harness that fits those pin connectors, so I'm going to source an old plug for this connector and make one from that.

Sir, if that pin is 5 volts, how do I supply that? I can get 12 volts from the battery, but have no idea how to source 5 volts from the truck.

Driving the truck back from the mechanic, it's missing alot more. Constantly now. I've turned the OD off manually using the button on the dash, and also kept OD on. It seems to miss alittle less when the OD is off, but it still pretty consistently runs poorly. I can smell a strong rich running smell.

Idle is good, alittle higher than before, but that's the only difference. Absolutely no poor running in park or stopped at a light. I don't know if this points to anything. There is still a rattling, almost whining noise when stopped or in park, though. This is new to the truck post trans rebuild.

Also, my speed sensor has not worked in two years, if this is possibly contributing. And there is a two pin connector that is not connected, that looks like it should go to the transmission. My mechanic thinks it's for a transmission temperature sensor. I am telling you all of this, in case this helps with the diagnosis.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857241
12/08/20 06:23 PM
12/08/20 06:23 PM
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From what I'm reading only the 46re has 5 volts supplied, to pressure/temp sensor. 46rh are solid 12 volt, from what I'm reading. If this is true it will simplify things.

I've also found new 46rh 3 pin pigtails for sale, so will be buying one of those. I don't want to cut into the existing harness because I don't have alot of extra length to play with in that harness.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857250
12/08/20 06:54 PM
12/08/20 06:54 PM
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Fix the miss before you do anything transmission wise. A cylinder misfire will always seem more severe when in lock up or overdrive.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: NITROUSN] #2857267
12/08/20 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by NITROUSN
Fix the miss before you do anything transmission wise. A cylinder misfire will always seem more severe when in lock up or overdrive.
iagree

Except the fact that you state no overdrive - a miss won’t cause that.

As for no speedo, I think that’s the RWAL sensor on the axle. The sensor on the transmission is for input to the SBEC which talks to the engine and trans.

Last edited by Transman; 12/08/20 07:22 PM.
Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: A727Tflite] #2857295
12/08/20 08:14 PM
12/08/20 08:14 PM
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I am working hard to fix the miss, and am open to any suggestions. I am very serious.

These are the components that I've had replaced chasing down this miss, so far: Distributor, coil, spark plugs, wires, crankshaft position sensor. Please advise me on what you would tackle next, if this was your truck. The only code thrown has been code 37 so far.

This truck did not have a miss before the trans swap, and I am completely willing to call it a coincidence. Please advise me, I am willing to take advice and turn it into action.

Transman and Nitrous, thank you both so much for your help, I actively take your advice and apply. I fear that I am going to have to continue to ask for it until I am back up and running well.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: 46rhRebuild] #2857351
12/08/20 09:43 PM
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One time we had an erratic misfire due to something either on the flywheel or converter. It was causing a signal or should we say a mis-signal on the crank sensor. The noise in the bell area could be a clue. The flexplate/flywheel has 8 holes that the crank sensor reads. Just possible that there is a problem there. You could remove the starter and lower shields and rotate the engine 360 degrees and look for something foreign or loose. As I recall we had a extra piece of wire off the converter weld causing a issue on one of the read holes. It is a shot in the dark but something that will only cost you some time and no money. Only other easy items would be to remove the cap and inspect it and the rotor. Remove the plugs and check the gap and look close at the porcelain insulators outside and inside for irregularities. Run it at night in the dark and look for any signs of secondary ignition spark jumping. I suspect you can have multiple issues but the miss concerns me as it just should not be there. I would have a hard time trying to diagnose a transmission problem with running irregularities. As also mentioned the brake light switch. Make sure it is adjusted and working correctly. A bad or mis-adjusted switch could cause lock up issues however I do not think it can be rapid enough to mis-interpet it as a miss.

Re: 46rh Governor Questions [Re: NITROUSN] #2857365
12/08/20 10:02 PM
12/08/20 10:02 PM
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Nitrous, I will pull the lower trans shield and visually inspect and rotate the engine. I will also run it at night to look for any kind of secondary ignition.

The distributor cap and rotor has been pulled twice now, to make adjustments and for inspection. I replaced the spark plugs a couple of days ago, visually checked each one, put permatex never seize on the threads and carefully snugged them in. I installed new good quality wires at the same time, carefully, making sure that they are away from the headers.

I will check the brake light switch, as well.

The miss is aggravating. It's been there ever since the transmission was swapped. It got better after the distributor, and then crankshaft position sensor was repaired. Then was back two days later. At idle, the truck runs beautifully. Then when accelerating it feels like it loses power, it makes this phut phut noise, and then once I'm done accelerating or not running around 2000 rpms, it's smooth as silk again. The minute I start accelerating or am up around the 2k mark (what I call highway speed, because in 3rd gear I'm around 2200) I get that loss of power miss. It's not a jerk or shudder, it feels like all of a sudden I'm not getting fuel to a cylinder because there is a sensible loss of power.

To further cloud the issue, my stepfather put Marvel Mystery Oil in the tank right after the transmission swap because that shop recommended it. He also added it a few days ago, thinking it was helping. I swear the miss has gotten worse since it was put in my tank. No one around my area thinks it's a contributing factor, but I'm not so certain.

Should I replace the IAC or start hunting down a set of injectors? I've personally put 100k on these injectors, and have never done anything with the egr, iac, map sensor or throttle body. I'm doing my own research on the side, but I will do what you and Transman recommend.

Also, my downstream 02 sensor is right next to the transmission, and it's possible it got hit when they swapped the trans out. I mean, they hit everything else, so why not. Could a damaged 02 sensor do any of this?


Last edited by 46rhRebuild; 12/08/20 10:07 PM.
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