Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: rt66jim]
#28432
07/19/06 08:01 AM
07/19/06 08:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
|
Sounds like a great idea,ryan.i know vic is wanting another set or two right now..
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot 6.54 @ 105.20
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: B3422W5]
#28433
07/19/06 08:26 AM
07/19/06 08:26 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920 Joplin, MO USA
Robbins
master
|
master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,920
Joplin, MO USA
|
Ya, I would buy a set also. My next motor will be a big cubed 59* motor, more than likely 426 up to 440 cubes.
Lee
Moparlee
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: Robbins]
#28434
07/19/06 09:26 AM
07/19/06 09:26 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,998 GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
340RICK
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,998
GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
|
the question on the 48* blocks??? The answer is easy, they fit like a champ after Ryan elongated the pushrod slot because I have a 48* R block with my W5's on it. This is great cause you never no when you might want to throw some W9's on. Because you always want to go faster
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: Robbins]
#28435
07/19/06 10:22 AM
07/19/06 10:22 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,407 Diego-Town, CA
Diego_Ted
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,407
Diego-Town, CA
|
Quote:
Ya, I would buy a set also. My next motor will be a big cubed 59* motor, more than likely 426 up to 440 cubes.
Lee
What he said!!!
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#28436
07/19/06 10:33 AM
07/19/06 10:33 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
"Cast them at a good foundry out of quality aluminum, machine them at a state of the art cnc equipped shop that can hold decent production tolerances"
Why do they need to be told this!!!!! The market is waiting for them. The push for bigger inch small blocks is crazy right now, and the choices are becoming available because the other vendors see the potential. Bad taste or no (and $100K to MP is a hit, but if that's deterring a product that is needed from production, they need a new therapist) they should be able to tell there is a need.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: Diego_Ted]
#28438
07/19/06 10:53 AM
07/19/06 10:53 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,385 Ohio
rck850
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,385
Ohio
|
Quote:
Quote:
Ya, I would buy a set also. My next motor will be a big cubed 59* motor, more than likely 426 up to 440 cubes.
Lee
What he said!!!
What they said
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: moper]
#28439
07/19/06 11:01 AM
07/19/06 11:01 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
|
OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
couple other quick notes.....
Like Rick said, it's not really that big of a deal to modify a W5 pushrod hole to fit a 48 degree block, I know ou812 has done a set, I've done a couple sets like that, and W5Dart66's motor is a 48* block as well.
MP could change the machining process to make pushrod slots rather than holes, BUT the problem with that is, it is much harder to fix a pushrod pinch hole put it by the head porter with a slot than a hole. In a hole you just sleeve the pushrod hole.... with a slot, it's an epoxy fix. So I would almost rather see them be holes for 59* rather than a universal slot.
And I know someone before long will mention the 59* W9 and why I left it off the list of avail. big port heads.... well What most people don't realize is , just because they call it a 59* head, does'nt mean it really is. it still retains 15 dgegree valve angle, which requires custom pistons or piston machining, you still have no off shelf bolt on headers for a W9, no wet intake manifolds, all manifolds are dry and use valley trays and external water lines.... basically alot of hassles. plus the pushrod oil only big $ Jesel/T&D rocker gear. So yes, it is an option, but it is a big hassle option compared to a W5.
I think if MP see's that their is a market and that they could sell between 100-200 units a year they would possibly re-release the head. I don't think think their Commando sales would even come close to what W5 sales would look like today.
Also to sweeten the pot... something else Jim mentioned to me in passing was that the tooling for the R1A race blocks is still around and he would like to tool up and make those again. We would be talking both 59 and 48* blocks NEW from a dealer in the $1200 range. The R1A's used production tooling, and were cast by a Chrysler owned foundry. The R3 stuff is all cast at Motor Castings Co. in Milwaukee (same palce that does Dart blocks etc), and is based off of specialized tooling, and is then machined at Cummins. The specialized casting and machining is what drives the cost of the R3 blocks so high. Jim was telling me what Chrysler actually pays for those blocks, and I won't disclose it publically, but trust me, they are barely making ANY $ selling those blocks. Where as the R1A stuff can be done on production tooling and cost under $1000 each to produce. Allowing them to be priced aprox 1/2 of what an R3 costs, at your dealer. Now granted becasue it is production tooling, they will not be as nice as the R3's, but for guys who just want 4 bolt mains, filld in pan rails, thicker decks, etc. Without worrying about Siamese bores or big bore water blocks, these will fill the bill perfectly. if you need 4.180" bore and a wide variety of deck heights etc, then you will need an R3 still. But for someone wanting to do a 4.03-4.10" bore, 4" crank motor, with a solid block this would be the way to go.
Could you imagine hitting your dealer next year and being able to leave with a pair of brand new W5's AND a new R1A block for the smae $ you can now get 1 R3 for? if the demand is proven to be there, it could happen.
Everybody and their brother now offers 4" cranks, H beam rods, 4" pistons etc. All stuff that never existed back in the 90's when the W5 was discontinued. Now we need affordable race blocks and large port heads....
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: RyanJ]
#28440
07/19/06 11:06 AM
07/19/06 11:06 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
|
The heads ar ea stretch for the type of stuff I do, but the blocks I could have 3 sold already...
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: moper]
#28441
07/19/06 12:10 PM
07/19/06 12:10 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
|
Ryan,you mentioned the jesel deal being expensive,the rocker gear is what 700 bucks,and is far superior geometry wise to anything i have seen ie erson ,etc,not to mention is bulletproof,i think its a great deal.and does away with the shafts...
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot 6.54 @ 105.20
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: B3422W5]
#28442
07/19/06 12:34 PM
07/19/06 12:34 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499 San Antonio,TX
440W8 Duster
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,499
San Antonio,TX
|
Quote:
Ryan,you mentioned the jesel deal being expensive,the rocker gear is what 700 bucks,and is far superior geometry wise to anything i have seen ie erson ,etc,not to mention is bulletproof,i think its a great deal.and does away with the shafts...
Don the chevy stuff is $700.00 the mopars is $800.00-$820.00 for SS Series.But still worth every penny.
70 Duster W8 motor. 1.29 60ft 5.79 1/8 at 120 mph glide with 1.80 gear @3170 lbs.
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: B3422W5]
#28443
07/19/06 12:49 PM
07/19/06 12:49 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
|
OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
Ryan,you mentioned the jesel deal being expensive,the rocker gear is what 700 bucks,and is far superior geometry wise to anything i have seen ie erson ,etc,not to mention is bulletproof,i think its a great deal.and does away with the shafts...
I was referring to Jesel/T&D W9 rockers as being expensive.
The Jesel Sportsmans are reasonable for W2/5 but do require rocker pedestal machining So add at least another $125-$150 to the cost and must be pushrod poiled, which not everyones block/lifter combo is setup for.
The Erson W2/5 is still the best bang for the buck setup out there, now avail in variety of ratios, they are currently setup to oil through the head or pushrod oil with no mods, billet bodies, roller bearing on shaft.... For $769 they are the best deal avail. The Jesel Sportsmans were right around $799, as of July 1 Jesel had a large price increase, and Sportsmans should now be around $960. Also the Jesel or T&D will require pushrod hole mods to clear pushrods as you know. The Erson stuff will run a 3/8 rod with no mods on 90% of W5 heads.
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: RyanJ]
#28444
07/19/06 01:57 PM
07/19/06 01:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,810
Portage,michigan
|
having run both the erson and jesels,for very little difference in money,the jesel is way superior,and i like the ball/ball pushrods as well...just my opinion,but i would do it the exact same way over..zero valvetrain problems at 7500 rpm pass after pass...hard to beat....
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car
1.41 best 60 foot 6.54 @ 105.20
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: B3422W5]
#28446
07/19/06 03:58 PM
07/19/06 03:58 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
OP
moparts member
|
OP
moparts member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547
State College, PA
|
Quote:
having run both the erson and jesels,for very little difference in money,the jesel is way superior,and i like the ball/ball pushrods as well...just my opinion,but i would do it the exact same way over..zero valvetrain problems at 7500 rpm pass after pass...hard to beat....
Like I said the Jesels are now in the mid $900's, plus add in the extra machining of the pedestals AND the pushrod slots... The difference grows to more like $300-$400.
The new Ersons also use ball ball pushrods. The new stuff is nicer than the older Ersons you had.
That being said, I have the Jesel Sportsmans on our W2 dirt track motor, he's turning 7600-7800 every lap this year, those guys beat up valvetrain parts 100X more in one year than a drag motor. In the last 2 seasons his lash has not changed .001" on any rocker. It's definitely a fairly bulletproof setup. I actually wanted to put T&D's on it when I first built it, but at the time they were on about 6 week back order and Jesel had the sportsmans on the shelf. I like the T&D even better than Jesel with the T&D full pressurized rocker body oiling system.
And I agree with ANDY, if we had a $1200 R1A block readily available how many guys you think would still base their strokers on 35 year old 340 and 360 blocks? I think a $1200 race block would be a hot seller. If they were smart they would rename it and put the old X on it, would draw in the nostalgia guys who think the X is better than the R series stuff, and would keep with their new Direct Connection re-birth LOL. Would just be like the old days, heading down to your direct connection dealer, and ordering up a $1200 X block.
And don't even ask, because Jim said the tooling for the X is long gone. But I think it would be a good marketing move to bring out the R1A castings with the X logo and name.
|
|
|
Re: Anyone Interested In W5 Mopar Heads Please Read
[Re: AndyF]
#28448
07/19/06 04:10 PM
07/19/06 04:10 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,049 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,049
S.E. Michigan
|
Quote:
Those blocks would sell like crazy.
|
|
|
|
|