Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: MarkZ]
#2853116
11/29/20 07:47 PM
11/29/20 07:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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That’s the one I’m referring to. Says it can be used with any type of cam.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2853119
11/29/20 08:04 PM
11/29/20 08:04 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
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With that much play your piston-to-valve clearance isn't how you set it up. Oil pump drive gear .........vs........ valve to piston clearance? Yes not following that one since we're talking gear wear and not timing chain slop
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: AndyF]
#2853129
11/29/20 08:36 PM
11/29/20 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Are you running a hardened washer between the shaft bushing and the gear? Wear in the thrust surface will eat a gear faster than me eating an arbys sandwich. If the elevation of the gear isn’t correct, the two gears don’t mesh correctly. I strongly believe that is your issue.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2853136
11/29/20 09:02 PM
11/29/20 09:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,270 New York, USA
Chargerfan68
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,270
New York, USA
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Are you running a hardened washer between the shaft bushing and the gear? Wear in the thrust surface will eat a gear faster than me eating an arbys sandwich. If the elevation of the gear isn’t correct, the two gears don’t mesh correctly. I strongly believe that is your issue. That’s an interesting point. One, i’ve never thought about before. I think in the future builds that i do, i will make a part of the engine buikd steps, the following: Use machinist dye on the gear, install in engine and rotate with distrib installed. Then inspect contact pattern to see if any adjustment is needed. Good point!
1.50 60Ft. , 10.75@ 127MPH Hauling 3900 LBS.
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2853166
11/29/20 10:19 PM
11/29/20 10:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,918 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,918
Pattison Texas
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That’s the one I’m referring to. Says it can be used with any type of cam. I have the Hughes Melonized one in my car, I have over 6k miles on it, I checked it at 3k miles & it still look new, I will check it this week . Not saying its ok to run one I do have a HV pump but I have no choice.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: CSK]
#2853167
11/29/20 10:32 PM
11/29/20 10:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,852 Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,852
Wichita
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I run the Crane melonized gear. 7,000 miles and hundreds of dragstrip passes and it still looks new. I recall at least one person here telling me to "get back with them when the engine has a few miles on it..."
Last edited by GY3; 11/30/20 10:50 AM.
'63 Dodge 330
11.19 @ 121 mph Pump gas, n/a, through the mufflers on street tires with 3.54's. 3,600 lbs.
9.92 @ 135mph with a 350 shot of nitrous and 93 octane pump. 1.43 60 ft. 3,750 lbs.
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: ek3]
#2853213
11/30/20 02:20 AM
11/30/20 02:20 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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I put 3000 street miles and hundreds of passes on my old pump gas Duster with a bronze gear using 5W20Wt regular Valvoline oil in it, no noticeable wear on it when I sold it. I had trimmed the oil pump bypass spring so it had 80Lbs. pressure cold and idled with 20 Lbs. at 850 RPM with 160+F oil temps. and 45 Lbs at or above 1200 RPM with hot oil, 75 Lbs. over 5000 RPM with hot oil OP, I have seen a bronze gear do what yours did and break off some of the teeth at the track, which makes me believe there are more than one company making them, the good and the bad ones. The cheaper ones are probably not the good ones
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2853239
11/30/20 08:18 AM
11/30/20 08:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia
dthemi
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
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When you get a new gear, put marking compound on it and check the pattern, like a rear gear. You may have to space up, or cut down height, and you may need to shim the cam forward, or backward. I've seen this happen before, and its been misalignment when it happens fast. Any bias in that gear puts a huge load on the gear as it tries to screw the cam out of the block. The last one I saw was an old factory block where the block busing was so worn it has the gear way too low.
Last edited by dthemi; 11/30/20 08:20 AM.
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2853279
11/30/20 10:40 AM
11/30/20 10:40 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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A friend just got a new Isky roller and it allows steel gears to be used now and I also replaced mine after 6 years and it had slop but was not tore up like the op's. I also had a 3-piece Torrington bearing set up between the block bushing and the bottom of the bronze gear after Pettis machined off material to make up the difference but I was off on my measurement so it rode too high on the cam gear. Got a new Crane bronze gear which is the hardest Rockwell tested one they offer as far as bronze goes and just one flat washer off of the Torrington deal and my timing is rock solid now with my cam preloaded against the timing cover with a rollerized Isky cam button going on 15+ years and LOTS of street miles.....
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: dthemi]
#2853595
11/30/20 09:29 PM
11/30/20 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 47 missouri,usa
cryplydog
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 47
missouri,usa
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I totally agree and haven't seen many that appear ok at all. I am working now on shortening my new cam on my lathe and making a home made hard spacer for raising/shimming the oil pump drive gear . And, I have a solid flat tappet lifter dang near hanging off the edge of a cam lobe on this one. I also have the need to use a adjustable rotor for the Distributor. All top quality brands too. I've been a machinist etc. all of my working career and tend to see these anomalies easily by eye at first before getting out the micrometers. I can't imagine not checking this area in a engine.
Last edited by cryplydog; 12/01/20 04:17 PM. Reason: mistake
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: cryplydog]
#2853651
12/01/20 03:17 AM
12/01/20 03:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,913
Bend,OR USA
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I totally agree and haven't seen many that appear ok at all. I am working now on lengthening my new cam with a home made hard spacer and raising/shimming the drive gear as we speak. And, I have a solid flat tappet lifter dang near hanging off the edge of a cam lobe on this one. I also have the need to use a adjustable rotor for the Distributor. All top quality brands too. I've been a machinist etc. all of my working career and tend to see these anomalies easily by eye at first before getting out the micrometers. I can't imagine not checking this area in a engine. [censored] is going on with this project raising the oil pump drive gear Is the oil pump drive bushing in decent usable condition? Is your block even usable? What type motor are you working on that you need to lengthen the cam on? Sometimes you need to throw away all the bad parts and get better parts, especially if you want good results
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: cryplydog]
#2853699
12/01/20 08:31 AM
12/01/20 08:31 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726 Lake Villa Il
INTMD8
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 726
Lake Villa Il
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I totally agree and haven't seen many that appear ok at all. I am working now on lengthening my new cam with a home made hard spacer and raising/shimming the drive gear as we speak. And, I have a solid flat tappet lifter dang near hanging off the edge of a cam lobe on this one. I also have the need to use a adjustable rotor for the Distributor. All top quality brands too. I've been a machinist etc. all of my working career and tend to see these anomalies easily by eye at first before getting out the micrometers. I can't imagine not checking this area in a engine. Lengthening the cam = spacing it forward? That's interesting. Have you compared the gear location to another cam? Also, I'm sure you noticed but you'll need to shim the crank gear as well. I had to do this on mine and I didn't even space the upper gear out. I used pinion shims.
69 Charger. 438ci Gen2 hemi. Flex fuel. Holley HP efi. 650rwhp @7250 510rwtq @5700
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: INTMD8]
#2853742
12/01/20 10:20 AM
12/01/20 10:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 277 MN
Willie68coronet
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 277
MN
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I just pulled my milodon gear out and after about 1000-1200 miles, It doesn't look much better than the original posters. What are the shims people are using to space it up? Seems I've also read people de-burring the cam gear, mine is a comp cam.
'68 Coronet 500 w/ Indy EZ-1 headed 446, 727 trans, 9" rear First day at the track with SUV street tires and no traction: 1.688 60', 7.24 @ 101.79 in the 1/8 mile
Great customer service from: DominicThumper Carbs, B3 racing engines, Porter Racing Engines, A-1 torque converter's, Quick Performance, Racer Brown Cams, R&R Performance, Manton pushrods
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2853746
12/01/20 10:29 AM
12/01/20 10:29 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,987 North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,987
North Dakota
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As I already mentioned....... the melonized steel gear. You just have to have a combo where a std pressure/std volume oil pump will work for you. Thanks, melonized it is.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Bronze Gear Wear
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2853757
12/01/20 10:59 AM
12/01/20 10:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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The interesting thing about needing special parts to rectify this problem is........ For the motors built using old OE blocks....... they probably got 100k out of the original cam and gear...... and were probably still fine when they were pulled(so...... how bad could the alignment have been?)
And...... you never really hear of Mopars wearing out iron gears being used on flat tappet cams.
I don’t think the bronze gears are as good as they used to be(no proof, just a gut feeling)........ and for sure...... I’ve seen some roller cam cores where the ends of the teeth on the gear could use some attention.
It would make for an interesting test...... On a roller cam where the teeth were pretty squared off...... buy two of the same part number bronze gear at the same time. Install cam and gear, run for say 2000-2500 miles.
Remove cam and gear....... dress up the teeth on the cam, reinstall cam with new gear. Run for the same mileage as done for the first stage of the test...... pull gear and compare wear of second gear to the wear on the gear from the first stage.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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