Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
#2846185
11/14/20 04:05 PM
11/14/20 04:05 PM
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RSI700VIPER
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Check out these 2 manual trans date codes. According to Chrysler's 10,000 day calendar, both these trans were built on February 4th, 1970 and should have been installed in a 1970 Model Year B body. Yet both were installed in a 1971 Charger and GTX. The Charger SPD was February 1971 and the GTX SPD was March of 1971, both about a year after the transmissions were assembled. The mopar conventional wisdom is that these transmissions should have been installed in April or May of a 1970 Model Year Car. Notice too that although built on the same day, they went to two different manufacturing plants (Los Angeles and Lynch Road)..
Last edited by RSI700VIPER; 11/14/20 04:06 PM.
1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5 1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2 1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7 1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan 1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth 1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ 1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland
"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2846199
11/14/20 04:20 PM
11/14/20 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826 las vegas
70AARcuda
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master
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After seeing this post...I wont be able to sleep for a week......
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2846530
11/15/20 11:25 AM
11/15/20 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,679 Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
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Fluffy Balladeer
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the LA transmission has "755" painted on it - this was for '71 18-spline B&E-body with bucket seats LA did not produce any E-bodies for '1971. (LA E body production apparently halted some time in May of 1970)
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: 6bblgt]
#2846556
11/15/20 12:27 PM
11/15/20 12:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,149 NW New Jersey
RSI700VIPER
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what side covers are on these two transmissions? the LA transmission has "755" painted on it - this was for '71 18-spline B&E-body with bucket seats (with or without console/non-CAR), is the Lynch Rd. transmission from a bucket seat non-CAR car? I don't have a picture of the cover side unfortunately, but both cars were 1971 B bodies with bucket seats.
Last edited by RSI700VIPER; 11/15/20 12:28 PM.
1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5 1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2 1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7 1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan 1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth 1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ 1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland
"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2846579
11/15/20 12:58 PM
11/15/20 12:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,149 NW New Jersey
RSI700VIPER
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6bblgt - In you post, you mention "with bucket seats (with or without console/non-CAR)" What is "non-CAR" I'm impressed with your knowledge of the finer details of transmission numbers and assembly plants. I assume the same goes for engines. Engine assembled, stamped with date code of assembly on top pad behind water pump, then put in que to be shipped to the car assembly plant were the VIN is applied at the same time the VIN on the trans is applied, correct?
1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5 1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2 1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7 1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan 1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth 1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ 1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland
"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: Rhinodart]
#2848557
11/19/20 10:07 AM
11/19/20 10:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,985 North Dakota
6PakBee
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Date coding isn't an exact science. ANY of the date code guidelines are just that, guidelines that reflect what typically happens. None of them are hard and fast rules.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2848604
11/19/20 11:46 AM
11/19/20 11:46 AM
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HemiSportFury
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Just an observation: in the late 70s I worked at the Kokomo Transmission Plant. There was a large area where they staged the loaded racks of finished transmissions waiting to be shipped out to the assembly plants. Sometimes this area was pretty empty, so the transmissions would be shipped out very soon after completion. Other times this area was completely full with racks of transmissions back against the wall, completely blocked in. In this case the recently finished transmission still went out quickly, but sooner or later the transmissions that were back against the wall finally went out to assembly plants. The production date on them would be much earlier than the assembly date on the car. First in first out was probably a goal, but many times the cyclic nature of the industry got in the way.
'64 Sport Fury, 528 Hemi, FiTech EFI, 4-speed, 4.10 Dana 60 '57 Belvedere 2dr sedan, current project in process '19 Cherokee Trail Hawk Elite '03 Ram 2500 CTD HO, 6-speed 214,000 miles and still going strong
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2848651
11/19/20 01:04 PM
11/19/20 01:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,039 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
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I had a '71 GTX built in St Louis in Feb of '71 and the engine was assembled in June of '70. But all of the accessories were dated immediately before the car's production date. Most within a week.
Master, again and still
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: HemiSportFury]
#2848713
11/19/20 02:48 PM
11/19/20 02:48 PM
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A727Tflite
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master
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Just an observation: in the late 70s I worked at the Kokomo Transmission Plant. There was a large area where they staged the loaded racks of finished transmissions waiting to be shipped out to the assembly plants. Sometimes this area was pretty empty, so the transmissions would be shipped out very soon after completion. Other times this area was completely full with racks of transmissions back against the wall, completely blocked in. In this case the recently finished transmission still went out quickly, but sooner or later the transmissions that were back against the wall finally went out to assembly plants. The production date on them would be much earlier than the assembly date on the car. First in first out was probably a goal, but many times the cyclic nature of the industry got in the way. This continued well into 2000 and later, the Grissom Air Force Base near the plant was used to store production transmissions. Most people think there is supposed to be some tie in to the production date of a vehicle versus the built date of components. The build date on an assembly or component is for others purposes. While it helps to keep component dates close to vehicle build date it means nothing in the end.
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2848780
11/19/20 06:09 PM
11/19/20 06:09 PM
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I had a '71 GTX built in St Louis in Feb of '71 and the engine was assembled in June of '70. But all of the accessories were dated immediately before the car's production date. Most within a week. Interesting Dave. Assembled 2 months before the beginning of the next model year. Do you recall if the engine pad was stamped F440 HP or G440 HP?
1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5 1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2 1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7 1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan 1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth 1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ 1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland
"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2848785
11/19/20 06:33 PM
11/19/20 06:33 PM
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Posts: 13,039 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
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It was 'G'. I am as sure as one can reasonably be that the engine was the original. The car was a solid car that had sat for years when I got it. All the accessories were original, and not even the valve covers appeared to have been off it. You could even still read the bore marking letters on the sides of the block. Greasy and nasty in all the right places. The car was just a garden variety 440 auto, nothing special and at the time they weren't bringing big money. So there wasn't much incentive to doctor the numbers.
Master, again and still
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2848791
11/19/20 06:47 PM
11/19/20 06:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Very Interesting. I'm not an expert but I believe the G440 HP or F440 HP (or whatever year) is stamped at the same time the assembly date is stamped on the ID pad along with other engine identifiers like undersized crank or oversized lifter bores. If the stamp was dated June of 1970, and it was stamped "G" 440 months before you could even order a 1971 Plymouth, could it have been a preproduction or pilot car?
1970 Superbird 440 Six BBL, 4-Speed, Dana, FJ5 1969 Daytona Charger 440 4-Speed, Dana, EV2 1971 340 Challenger Conv. Flemington Speedway Pace Car, FC7 1970 340 Six Pack Callenger T/A 4-speed T8 Tan 1971 340 Challenger RT Formal Roof, EV2 w/ V2 Stripe & Orange Houndstooth 1969 Talladega Torino, 428CJ 1969 Gurney Special Cyclone Spoiler II, 351 Cleveland
"Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" Ben Franklin 1755
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: RSI700VIPER]
#2848959
11/20/20 09:16 AM
11/20/20 09:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,039 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
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Wouldn't think it would be a pilot or early car as a February build.
My guess would be that at that late date in the model year they just waited to stamp the model year like they did the VIN. That way it could go into a car or across a parts counter. Or maybe it was a parts engine to begin with that got put into a production car for some reason. It's Mopar and it's mass production, who really knows?
Master, again and still
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Re: Date Code Conventional Wisdom Wrong Again
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2848965
11/20/20 09:33 AM
11/20/20 09:33 AM
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6PakBee
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I Live Here
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I'll throw my guess in here. If it was near the end of the 1970 model year and there were sufficient assembled engines in stock to fill the remaining 1970 orders (or close to it), rather than shut the engine plant down for two months they simply started building engines for the 1971 model year even though it hadn't started. As it appears the engine sat in stock for nearly a year before being used tells me that demand for the 440 was falling OR it was a victim of FILO inventory. Which brings up another topic. There have been numerous posts on how to preserve an assembled engine for long term storage. I wonder how the assembly plants handled this?
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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