So after years of asking all the wrong people (apparently), I cornered Jim S. from MP last week and asked him specifically about the whereabouts of the W5 core boxes and whether we could ever possibly see a re-release of the W5 head.

Here's the "real" story.....

Apparently there were aprox 1400 sets of W5's cast, and of those Jim said maybe 1000 sets had to be scrapped due to terrible casting/machining issues. MP lost ALOT of $ on that deal, $100K+ loss which has made them real gun shy about the W5.

On a brighter note, he did say the core boxes do still exist and he knows exactly where they are at. Both the small chamber and normal chamber head could be re-released, if demand was proven....

What I was telling them, was there has been a resurgence in popularity in the past few years, and people are paying more today for a new in box set than they did back when the dealers had them. Plus with the fact that TTI now makes and off the shelf W5 header, and that the INDY intake can be adapted to work etc, the market is there for them.

The W5 had two critical flaws..... first the castings were horrific. This can be corrected by using a new foundry. Unfortunately Zeus went bankrupt or out of business so they are no longer using Zeus for their aluminum which is a shame. They are now using I believe CMI in Ohio.

The second was the machining which was handled by Arrow, and unfortunately is STILL being done by Arrow, but I forsee some changes coming there.

So if we could get new W5's cast at CMI with CNC machining done anywhere other than Arrow... we could have a pretty decent head, hopefully without all of the issues the 1990's versions had.

My reasoning for bringing back and extinct head would be as follows:

There really are'nt alot of "big" head choices out there for the 400+ inch motors. You have INDY with their 360-1 and -2 series heads.... and that's about it. There are no new W5's, the B1 Brodix stuff is relatively smallish, Edelbrocks are small port heads, the magnum stuff is small, and the W2's are smallish and MP keeps making less and less W2's and the ones they do make are being pushed toward T&D/Jesel only rockers, 48* bank angles, 15 degree valve angles and small chambers. They don't make a nice larger chamber W2 anymore with 18* angle and old style W2 race rockers. The Large port commando is out there, and it was supposed to be the W5's replacement... it is a great piece, but it's not quite the head a W5 is. It's limitations are in the Ex port design/header bolt pattern (TTI W2 headers don't fit exactly right), the standard 340 intake port window (non raised port) and the tiny heavily shrouded 51 CC chamber that comes cast at 3.90" bore size. Small chambers are great... except when you have 415-450 inches and a flat top piston. So I see a need for a 60-65 cc chamber, large raised port head that utilizes the old school W2 race rocker gear.

Erson, Jesel, T&D, Crane, Harland Sharp, Norris, and MP all still make & sell the W2 race rocker gear. So rocker choices are not a problem with the W5 head. (the INDY 360-1+2 series stuff on the other hand is hampered severly by a lack of rocker choices)

TTI, and Heddman now both have off the shelf W5 specific headers. Which for the duration of the W5's back in the 90's did not exist. So in other words when the W5 heads were avail, there were no headers... now there are headers and no heads to be found to use them...

Same deal with the rockers, back in the mid 90's, the W5's heyday, Ersons, T&D and Jesels for W2/5 did not exist. We have more rocker choices for these heads today than ever, and they keep discontinuing the heads????

Intake manifold availibility.... None of the Mopar W5 intakes were ever really a killer setup, but with todays advent of the INDY 360-3 intake and now the new Edelbrock Super Victors we finally have some good intakes that can be made to work on a W5 head. MP could work with Edlebrock (which we know they already are on the BB intake stuff), and come out with a new MP M1 W5 intake, taking the Super Victor and modifying it and putting a MP logo on it, and you'd have a great piece to compliment the new head. So it would not be a case where they would have to tool up an all new intake again for the old W5, they could just use existing intakes with slight casting/machining mods.

It would be nice if they also made some mods such as installing 11/32 guides with a .502" OD rather than the Arrow specialty .494" od 3/8 guides. CNC oil drainback slots, and possibly a slightly larger as cast exhaust port would all be nice added features they could do. I would also put in larger OD seats than the original W5's had so we could use a 2.10" or 2.125" valve without having to change seats.

Cast them at a good foundry out of quality aluminum, machine them at a state of the art cnc equipped shop that can hold decent production tolerances, and try to keep them in the original $1200-$1300 price range. I think based on people I talk to every day that there would be a substantial market for such a head. (Several hundred pairs a year sales) MP told me they need to be convinced of that market before they would think about doing something like re-releasing those heads. So I guess that was the point of my post.... The folks at MP DO read what is written on this board and get a feel for what is going on in the state of the hobby here. Basically I would like to see for myself and I'm sure MP would also be curious to see what peoples thoughts are on this subject of a possible re-release of the W5 cylinder heads, if they could guarantee proper quality control.

We are a small 2 man shop and we've worked on aproximately 40 sets of W5's over the past 2 years. And I see alot more people on the internet and at tracks all around the world who are running W5's today. 10 years ago you hardly saw any interest in W5's, it seems their peak usage is today, even though they have not been available at dealers since 2000?

So this is kind of an open forum...... with the main question being, if they re-released the head with good castings and machining in the $1200-$1300 bare /pair window how many people would be thinking seriously of purchasing them in the future? thoughts/opinions.........

Well I for one would love to see it.Was sad the day I found out the W5 was done.I have run them on my engines from 1993~present.The head was so bad when first broght out all the BIG Name engine shops in the early 90s told me I just got robbed.So I set out to prove them wrong and I guess I got lucky as my first set did not leak and run well.But no oil drain backs POOR intake for the heads and NO help from MP it was had to always make it work out.But like Ryan has said now we have headers, Intakes amd rockers for this head that work well.It is aq killer street/bracket race head.(much more user friendly than W7,8,9...)I have done lots of R&D on the W5s and I think W/a better starting point you could make 20~40 more HP than the old W5s.Just to show a W5 vs W8 motor we made 15 pulls on my W8 motor 365CI(4.175by3.33) and 15 pulls on my W5 motor 362CI(4.060by3.50)On the same day the W8 motor was only about 90HP better that nice but you are talking about an $8000 W5 motor and a $25000 W8 motor.So I guess in the end I would LOVE TO SEE NEW W5 HEADS!!!!!! So thats my vote LOL Brett Miller!

I couldn't agree more. Realistically, what head is the small block mopar bracket racer going to put on his stroked small block. Choices are pretty limited for a light SB Mopar.

When you look at te selection of the big port chev heads, it makes you wonder where all the big port chrysler heads are.

Personally, I have seen a couple sets of W5's in action as well as W2 stuff, and the W5's really run but they are few and far between. If I had to buid a high doller small block right now, Indy would get the nod at least for the parts order.

I would buy another set Ryan.Maybe two.

Also Ryan can MP make a W5 head with a larger intake runner for the 420-450 CI motors something like in the 235-245 cc intake runner?I felt my W5 heads where a little small for the CI that I was running.

Count me in, that would be awesome. I have W2s but was thinking of trying to track down a set of W5s for my future stroker build.

With the onset of the BIG SB's that are so common re-releasing the W5 would be as much a homerun as the BB Eddy head has been to the BB guys. I cant see it failing. I am CONSTANTLY looking in the mags and classifieds and swap meets for a good set of W5's but to no avail. We've got the ability to build 440+ CI SB's and other than the over priced (in my opinion) Indy's, theres nothing to top a motor like this. Please MP, if you're listening, DO THIS!!

Thanks Ryan for the info.

I was touting the W-5 heads yrs ago and got bashed at every turn...
if you took the time to properly fix them..
they are a great head..
make lots of power...
they have alot of potential.
and could actually be a very economical head...
like you stated due to availabilty of valve train.
teh 52* stuff...is still out there and seems will be for a long time.
ive purchased 2 sets of large prt commando's trying to duplicate the performance that the w5 afforded..
thats alot of work...that doesnt come cheap.
not even counting the specialty parts needed to complete the set up.
especially the non existant header flange.
the W-5 is as close to a bolt up as you'd get...considering its a large port type head..and works for a 52* block.
with what youve mention'd the descision seems logical...
and with the push for the super size smallblock combo's from mopar ie 440"...
they'd be running up against the wall with out it.
again....with whats out there..
they always seem to be missing a piece of the puzzle...
producing these heads again would be the smart thing to do..
all the excuses are pretty much gone now..
id buy a few sets...thats for sure..
dont discount the cost factor as well...
1200-ish ...PLEASE....and THANK YOU...
cheapst.

I have 1 good set But i like to have 2 more set's of same quality.

This is the second best news I've heard all year (second only to the new Chally). Count me in for a set to go on my 408 R3 block. Cause I REALLY don't wanna have to give the business to Indy...

Thanks Ryan, I'm looking foward to seeing my set you just finished .It would be nice to see MP make them again.I thought mancini had a few sets 6 months ago or so . A better quality casting would be great!

Sounds like a very logical marketing plan. There was a W5 top end for sale at the Woodburn Mopar meet last weekend. The guy wanted $3500 for ported heads with 1.6 Erson rockers and a 4500 flanged MP manifold. Nice looking setup.

If MP won't do it maybe they'll sell you the core boxes! Make some changes to them and get into the head business. You'll probably need to raise $100K in cash or so to get it going but I bet you could make it fly. If you do one thing really well the guys will beat a path to your door.

i'll keep my fingers crossed i would buy a set right now the only thing stopping me is i can't get a replacement head if i needed one. if they make them again. put me down for two sets if you talk to him again ask him where my 340 block is

At that price I would definitely be a player. I have Indy ported Edelbrock heads on my stroker and it is all torque and no HP. I brutalize everyone down low and then it runs out of poo at the top end.

I'm in Australia & can assure the powers that be the interest in W5's is still there, so what I'm saying is the overseas market has potential

BTW, that's one of the reasons why I've held back on doing a SB stroker for myself, with the departure of W5's it left a big gap in choices

just for the records i do remember about 4 years ago, when Ryan was trying to locate a brand new set of w5 heads for me it was like half a year just to find a set of w5 at that time... one small block mopar guy can always use a nice set of w5 heads...period

P.S i know at least 4 guys that have wanted to buy the w5's from me, and a said no way jose... find your own set...

This woud be good for everyone but me, My CNC W5's are worth there weight in gold if they start making them again my heads will be worth far less than they are worth now. Supply and demand baby

I guess I could take one for the MOPAR team

They are a great head for the 408/416" motors

I do think a bigger intake port volume and bigger valve would be needed for bigger cubic inch motors.
But there are not that many guys building big stroker 440" 59* motors is there??????

Oh well I know with RyanJ leading the charge us smallblock guys have alot of good things to look forward to. Keep it up Ryan

Fix 'em and you can count me in as well...and a few of my customers too no doubt!!

those would be a nice future up-grade for me when I wear out my commando's, I say do it, the brand X guy's have a bazillion different head's to choose from,,,why not us?

I planning to build 340 stroker so...

Indys are littlebit too expencive and edelbrock...well they are good but too small and dosent have mutch potential

If new w5 would cost something like that you said and quality would be good...i would defenetly be intrested.

Well if Chrysler had gone to a GOOD foundry when
they started that project they wouldnt have lost
a ton of money which I know was a hard thing to find
back then. I myself own 1 set of the OLD castings
whick make a great paper weight and a set of the
newer castings that work well but I am always looking
for heads for numerious projects that I am working
on, so sure I would love to see them get back into them