So you think Morel lifters are the best? *update 2*
#2779488
05/29/20 02:40 PM
05/29/20 02:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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OP
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Guess what, they screw up too. This is a pair of their 5321 hydraulic retrofit roller lifters for an LA. I had been fighting an oiling issue with one lifter. I thought I just got a piece of trash in it. Called Hughes Engines and ordered a single pair because you can't take them apart as the pushrod seat won't clear the rivet for the link. So curiosity got the best of me and I drilled the rivets and took them apart. So looking at the pics the first one is the good lifter. You can see where the oil hole in the body intersects with a relief cut into the inside of the lifter body so the plunger doesn't block the oil flow. In the second pic you can see where the relief isn't cut deep enough to intersect the oil supply hole. Now will Dave warranty this for me? I'm going to call them and see what they say.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2779489
05/29/20 02:47 PM
05/29/20 02:47 PM
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Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 9,478 Super Spudsville
Mr PotatoHead
Half Baked
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Half Baked
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Super Spudsville
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Maybe they should of just told you they would swap it out for you since it was a bad "new" lifter.
But id say 50/50 but if one tells you no, call back and get the other, you can count on two diff answers on everything from those 2 guys.
STOP POTATO HATE!
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Mr PotatoHead]
#2779496
05/29/20 03:03 PM
05/29/20 03:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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Maybe they should of just told you they would swap it out for you since it was a bad "new" lifter.
But id say 50/50 but if one tells you no, call back and get the other, you can count on two diff answers on everything from those 2 guys. Well I initially thought it was trash in the lifter and now that I've drilled the rivets out holding the link bar on, well, who knows? But, at least I know it wasn't my fault and I have concrete evidence of what was wrong. You can bet I will be blowing air into the replacements before I reassemble it, I'm tired of buying intake gaskets.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2779510
05/29/20 03:40 PM
05/29/20 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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If you do a search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise”, or problems you will find there is no shortage of people experiencing less than optimal results. No lifter brand seems exempt from this....... and certainly not Morel.
That’s a good catch. If Hughes won’t take care of it, maybe sending the pics to Morel might get you somewhere.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2779516
05/29/20 03:58 PM
05/29/20 03:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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If you do a search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise”, or problems you will find there is no shortage of people experiencing less than optimal results. No lifter brand seems exempt from this....... and certainly not Morel.
That’s a good catch. If Hughes won’t take care of it, maybe sending the pics to Morel might get you somewhere. I would expect a little more noise from them but this was loud, like collapsed lifter or flat lobe loud, I cut the top off an old rocker cover and ran the engine so I could see what was going on and there was no oil getting to the rocker on that lifter. All the others were fine. But in the end it's $55.00, not sure it's even worth the additional aggravation at this point.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2779556
05/29/20 06:16 PM
05/29/20 06:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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So I got the replacements and can't blow through either one of them. Called Hughes and talked to the other Dave, went through the whole scenario with him. I told him I didn't want to install these lifters because the good lifter flows air freely through it and these do not. He agreed and said he would air check a set on Monday before he sent them out to me. Asked me to send all the others back to him and apologized for the trouble I was having. So no bashing of Hughes here, they were good, I know it's not their fault but this has certainly soured me on Morel. I try to buy made in the USA but when you come across crap like this it really makes you think twice. I'm very disapointed.
Last edited by Guitar Jones; 05/29/20 06:51 PM.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2779595
05/29/20 07:55 PM
05/29/20 07:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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If you do a search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise”, or problems you will find there is no shortage of people experiencing less than optimal results. No lifter brand seems exempt from this....... and certainly not Morel.
That’s a good catch. If Hughes won’t take care of it, maybe sending the pics to Morel might get you somewhere. So do you have a contact email or something for Morel, because they say they won't deal with the general public or individual engine builders, they want you to go through one of their dealers. This really should be the 3rd strike, poorly machined lifter, replacements not any better and no way to contact them. Not exactly what I'd call great customer service or product.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2779608
05/29/20 08:24 PM
05/29/20 08:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452 Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
racerhog
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 452
Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
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Chevy & Ford Guys trying to build Mopar parts again... Oh boy !!!! I lay odds John Callies group is doing the offshore deal? Good Luck, Hope you get a good batch to get you by...
Bob(Cowboy)Hogan Monrovia So-Cal
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2779696
05/30/20 10:25 AM
05/30/20 10:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
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If you do a search for “hydraulic roller lifter noise”, or problems you will find there is no shortage of people experiencing less than optimal results. No lifter brand seems exempt from this....... and certainly not Morel.
That’s a good catch. If Hughes won’t take care of it, maybe sending the pics to Morel might get you somewhere. So do you have a contact email or something for Morel, because they say they won't deal with the general public or individual engine builders, they want you to go through one of their dealers. This really should be the 3rd strike, poorly machined lifter, replacements not any better and no way to contact them. Not exactly what I'd call great customer service or product. From the post preceding this one, it sounds like Hughes is going to take care of it for you, so you should be all set. Looking at how that one lifter of yours was improperly machined, my gut feeling is that it’s unlikely that situation was limited to one unit. The other thing that’s been highlighted by the fact that you got that lifter in the first place is....... they obviously aren’t checking the bleed rate of those lifters as part of any final QC check. Since no oil can get into it with that manufacturing defect........ it would(should) fail any bleed rate test(unless zero seconds is within spec). I’m not a big hyd cam fan in general, which by extension means I’m not really a big hyd roller fan either. On the occasions where Im not able to talk a customer out of one, or the rare situation where it really makes the most sense for the application........ I’ll have to try and source the lifters from another manufacturer besides Morel. One other thing learned is...... don’t install them without first giving them the air blow thru test.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2779776
05/30/20 02:21 PM
05/30/20 02:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Almost all the cams and lifters I sell go straight to the customer, so I never see them....... hence, “I” don’t test them.
On the rare occasion it’s something I put together myself, and the even rarer occasion that I’m putting something together with hyd lifters........ I actually don’t follow the manufacturers instructions. I pump oil into the lifters through the oil feed hole in the side, and then check to see that they are pumped up hard before installing them into the motor. I just let the valve springs bleed them back down.
I can’t even remember what the last hyd cammed motor I put together myself was. I bet it’s been over 10 years.
I hardly do any assembly work anymore. The last bit of that I did was last year....... where I actually took out a hyd cam and replaced it with a SFT.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2779804
05/30/20 04:34 PM
05/30/20 04:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
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Almost all the cams and lifters I sell go straight to the customer, so I never see them....... hence, “I” don’t test them.
On the rare occasion it’s something I put together myself, and the even rarer occasion that I’m putting something together with hyd lifters........ I actually don’t follow the manufacturers instructions. I pump oil into the lifters through the oil feed hole in the side, and then check to see that they are pumped up hard before installing them into the motor. I just let the valve springs bleed them back down.
I can’t even remember what the last hyd cammed motor I put together myself was. I bet it’s been over 10 years.
I hardly do any assembly work anymore. The last bit of that I did was last year....... where I actually took out a hyd cam and replaced it with a SFT. I would have loved to put the solid roller I had in it but by the time I bought the stud kit, rockers, pushrods, and lifters I would have been in way too deep for a mountain climbing truck. It isn't a race car or even any kind of competition truck so it doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money on it.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: B1MAXX]
#2779881
05/30/20 09:00 PM
05/30/20 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760 Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,760
Windsor, ON, Canada
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for future reference how are you testing them? I'd like to second that request...when I read "...air blow thru test...", to me that means: 1) clean the lifter 2) feed air into the oiling hole on the lifter body (normally the part of lifter body which is located in the lifter bore) 3) watch the pushrod cup move up to the fully pressurized position ...makes sense? I think the last install of hydraulic flat tappets I did I used the approach fast68plymouth described, but these were the anti pump-up lifters, so I literally ran them with 0 (zero) pre-load, and therefore didn't worry much about them getting too pumped up at the start. Now that I'm moving to the hydraulic roller setup I'd rather spend whatever extra time it takes to measure & verify in order to hopefully give me a better final outcome.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#2779933
05/31/20 02:05 AM
05/31/20 02:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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They should flow air through them in either direction. It's easier to blow air into the pushrod seat and you should feel air coming out the feed hole. I had several used hydraulic lifters laying around, both roller and flat and that is how I determined I had a bad one and that the replacements were also bad.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2780312
06/01/20 12:32 PM
06/01/20 12:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,367 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Las Vegas
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If you want to run a hydraulic roller in a BBM the go with Hy-Lift Johnson lifters. Only ones that seem to be worth a damn. Talked to them at PRI for awhile, a good friend who is an engine builder in Canada has had good luck with them
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#2780418
06/01/20 05:05 PM
06/01/20 05:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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If you want to run a hydraulic roller in a BBM the go with Hy-Lift Johnson lifters. Only ones that seem to be worth a damn. Talked to them at PRI for awhile, a good friend who is an engine builder in Canada has had good luck with them It's a small block but at $800 for a set of Johnsons I might have just put the mechanical roller in it. Thanks though, I don't think I had seen them before.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2780425
06/01/20 05:19 PM
06/01/20 05:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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So Hughes has overnighted another pair of lifters to me at no charge. For all the bashing I've seen of Hughes here and in other places I can't say they haven't been good to me. I'll report back when I get them and test them for myself.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost conversion. 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2780429
06/01/20 05:21 PM
06/01/20 05:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,598 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
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The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,598
Eagle, Idaho
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Almost all the cams and lifters I sell go straight to the customer, so I never see them....... hence, “I” don’t test them.
On the rare occasion it’s something I put together myself, and the even rarer occasion that I’m putting something together with hyd lifters........ I actually don’t follow the manufacturers instructions. I pump oil into the lifters through the oil feed hole in the side, and then check to see that they are pumped up hard before installing them into the motor. I just let the valve springs bleed them back down.
I can’t even remember what the last hyd cammed motor I put together myself was. I bet it’s been over 10 years.
I hardly do any assembly work anymore. The last bit of that I did was last year....... where I actually took out a hyd cam and replaced it with a SFT. I'm not keeping score, but it seems when I read or hear about someone having a cam or lifter failure it's a hydraulic setup. Is a solid cam setup less likely to have issues just because the lifter has no moving parts to fail?
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Re: So you think Morel lifters are the best?
[Re: Neil]
#2780604
06/02/20 09:49 AM
06/02/20 09:49 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,774 Holland MI Ottawa
2boltmain
master
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master
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Posts: 4,774
Holland MI Ottawa
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If someone was planning a hot street engine build - roller cam with duration in the 230s low 240s would it just be safest to go with a solid roller? I mean I must have adjustable rockers regardless whether Hyd or solid and I don't mind lash adjusting. I just want year after year of trouble free performance.
Keep old mopars alive.
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