Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: 71Pan]
#2715819
11/14/19 05:45 PM
11/14/19 05:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872
Pattison Texas
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Just pulling apart 408 bracket motor. 12-1 Ft cam ported Eddie heads. Broke motor in with Amsoil 30wt breakin oil. He ran the 20-50 zrod oil. The bottom of the oil pan had a blob of sludge in it jelly like. It was about 1/4 quart of oil. Should have taken pics but didnt. Is it from avgas and running to much jet in carb rich? I am a Amsoil fan just a little shocked send in an oil sample, that will tell you everything.
Last edited by csk; 11/14/19 05:46 PM.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: 71Pan]
#2715938
11/14/19 10:05 PM
11/14/19 10:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,307
Bend,OR USA
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Did you use assembly and cam lube? If so maybe that is what your seeing, I see ARP rod bolt lube in the bottom of the oil pan of every motor I've assembled and look in the oil pan later Probably takes 5 or 6 oil changes to get it out of there if you don't remove it your self after breaking in the motor I have heard of some synthetic oils doing weird things., especially in race motors I owned and flew a air cool airplane for over 700 hours, I switch the oil from regular to Mobil AV1 synthetic aircraft oil, it ended up slugging that motor up in less than 300 hours, we where required to change the oil and filter every 50 hours and the complete airplane had to have a mandatory inspection once a year if you flew it less hours per year than the manufacturer mandated for component inspections. The motor was slug free on the first inspection as it had sat for several years before me buying it so I had it inspected and remove a rocker arm cover from both sides of the motor to look inside for corrosion from it sitting that long, it was hangered at the north end of the San Franscico bay. No corrosion or slug Most of the trips we flew in that airplane where over 1 hour, usually 2 Hrs.+ per leg, my wife kidney where usually the limiting factor on how long in the air before landing
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: justinp61]
#2716048
11/15/19 10:43 AM
11/15/19 10:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I was told that it is the additives from the oil and not to worry about it. The crud in the photos above came from Brad Penn oil and was not soluble with mineral spirits. The mineral spirits just moved it around but the pan cleaned easily.
The only thing in my engine that is black is the spacers between the T&D rockers and they looked perfect when inspected. Also the engine was clean and everything looked great. It's ran great all summer, I did change to Driven oil. If this is true, that's bad. If the additive package is falling out of the base stock it's useless. I've seen things like this before. Using a real synthetic with alcohol will do the same thing. When you drain the oil the alcohol has separated out part of the VI improvers. The oil pressure is no longer stable, and you start getting blued adjusters and other things. I'm not sure what part of the additive package that black residue is, but that would be very disconcerting to me.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: madscientist]
#2716066
11/15/19 11:22 AM
11/15/19 11:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176 East Coast
A/MP
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,176
East Coast
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Not necessarily. There is a point where oil manufacturers follow"more is better". Never found out why, even when speaking to formulators. X amount of ZDDP is needed in motor oil. Some blends put in too much and eventually separates outs and becomes an ingredient of sludge. ZDDP is that wonder drug that is very important in motor oil. Brad Penn or Penn 1 hangs around on every moving part of an engine. Your car gets started in maybe 2,3,4 weeks.That,call it sticky or gooey, keeps all the internal parts from being worn on the start up. Seen that that at salvage yards when pulling parts. Modern cars, with low levels of ZDDP, maybe sitting a year or 2 or 3 have the faintest of lubrication on the internal parts. Are the motors clean? YES. They have more dry start wear. When you find a sludge bucket, they are a greasy mess and the parts are all coated( accounting for good service). Good maintenance programs are a definite plus and so is ZDDP fortified oil
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: A/MP]
#2716190
11/15/19 07:06 PM
11/15/19 07:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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After breaking in my 451 with Brad Penn, I put in "regular" motor oil with a bottle of ZDDP. So basically there's no hours on it - well, maybe 10-20 mins. of run time. Then it sat in the garage for six months. But when I pulled the pan to fix the leaks recently, I was surprised at how black the oil was (and I had to wipe a thin layer of black stuff like that to clean the pan out, too). Figured it was the additive. Also I saw a few greenish drops hanging from rod bolt heads My heart stopped for a moment - then I tasted it and it's just oily, definitely not antifreeze! No "blob" like OP's though.
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: madscientist]
#2716201
11/15/19 07:33 PM
11/15/19 07:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824 Wind Gap,Pa.
Sammy
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,824
Wind Gap,Pa.
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I was told that it is the additives from the oil and not to worry about it. The crud in the photos above came from Brad Penn oil and was not soluble with mineral spirits. The mineral spirits just moved it around but the pan cleaned easily.
The only thing in my engine that is black is the spacers between the T&D rockers and they looked perfect when inspected. Also the engine was clean and everything looked great. It's ran great all summer, I did change to Driven oil. If this is true, that's bad. If the additive package is falling out of the base stock it's useless. I've seen things like this before. Using a real synthetic with alcohol will do the same thing. When you drain the oil the alcohol has separated out part of the VI improvers. The oil pressure is no longer stable, and you start getting blued adjusters and other things. I'm not sure what part of the additive package that black residue is, but that would be very disconcerting to me. This is true. Almost every engine builder has stopped using Brad Penn oul.
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: DrCharles]
#2716246
11/15/19 10:45 PM
11/15/19 10:45 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Rotella or Delvac 15w40. My engine guy runs Valvoline 15w40 in his HRL hydroplane engines. 350 SBC and 2.5 liter Fords. No roller cams. 7000+ RPM for 5 laps plus heat races. Kevin
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: A/MP]
#2716336
11/16/19 11:15 AM
11/16/19 11:15 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Not necessarily. There is a point where oil manufacturers follow"more is better". Never found out why, even when speaking to formulators. X amount of ZDDP is needed in motor oil. Some blends put in too much and eventually separates outs and becomes an ingredient of sludge. ZDDP is that wonder drug that is very important in motor oil. Brad Penn or Penn 1 hangs around on every moving part of an engine. Your car gets started in maybe 2,3,4 weeks.That,call it sticky or gooey, keeps all the internal parts from being worn on the start up. Seen that that at salvage yards when pulling parts. Modern cars, with low levels of ZDDP, maybe sitting a year or 2 or 3 have the faintest of lubrication on the internal parts. Are the motors clean? YES. They have more dry start wear. When you find a sludge bucket, they are a greasy mess and the parts are all coated( accounting for good service). Good maintenance programs are a definite plus and so is ZDDP fortified oil Not sure where you get our information but you are just wrong on some of this stuff. ZDDP (I'll try and spell it out...zincdiakyldithiophosphate) is nothing more than phosphated zinc. Its not a wonder anything. It's a power KILLER when you have more than you need. The phosphate is what attracts the zinc to hot parts, and the zinc provides a consumable wear surface on things like cam lobes, valve stems, valve springs and piston rings. That's why any ENGINE oil must have ZDDP to be classified as an engine oil. That additive, like every other must be part of the oil, or it would settle out while in the can (yes I'm old...oil goes in a can when you're my age) and be worthless. There should never be any reason for any additive in the base oil that can separate from the base oil no matter how long it sits. If an oil has to be "gooey" to lubricate on dry starts its a junk oil. Dry starts are lubricated by the additive package like zinc that remains after the engine is shut down. Not unlike how piston rings are lubricated at all times...dry film lubrication...which is zinc and good oils have a few more things. Junk is junk at any price and a "gooey" oil is junk no matter what name is on the bottle.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: Twostick]
#2716500
11/16/19 06:37 PM
11/16/19 06:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220 West Plains, MO
DrCharles
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
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How about Mobil 1 15W-50? It has 1200 ppm zinc, 1300 ppm phosphorus, and a 5-quart jug from Walmart is only $25.47. The Mobil website says it's for racing and flat tappet applications...
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Re: AMSOIL SLUDGE IN PAN
[Re: DrCharles]
#2716507
11/16/19 06:56 PM
11/16/19 06:56 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,570
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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How about Mobil 1 15W-50? It has 1200 ppm zinc, 1300 ppm phosphorus, and a 5-quart jug from Walmart is only $25.47. The Mobil website says it's for racing and flat tappet applications... Bingo!!! Viscosity is a little heavy tho unless you are running loose clearances. Check out Mobil1 Delvac or Rotella T6 synthetic diesel oil. I'm pretty sure it's available in 10w30 but the normal one is 5w40. Last I checked I think the phos and zinc was around the 1000 ppm mark, one a little over and the other a little under, zinc vs phos. Kevin
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