Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: radar]
#2678353
07/17/19 04:02 PM
07/17/19 04:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Hey I’ve been where you’re at and even after buying the aftermarket bushings I still had to make them smaller to run over 20° initial on my old 408. I don’t have a lathe so I pinched one on a bolt and chucked it in a drill then went to town with a dial caliper and some 80 grit sandpaper. It took a while! Luckily I have access to a lathe or two at work. Chucking up something that small may be a problem, but I can come up with something.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: AndyF]
#2678373
07/17/19 05:39 PM
07/17/19 05:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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By all means build different bushings and do some testing. Eventually you'll come to the conclusion that the MSD pro billet distributor is a bad choice for a street car. If you want to accelerate your learning curve get an O2 sensor and hook up a EGT. Once you hook those two things up you'll start to see why you need vacuum advance in a street car.
The hot ticket these days is a fully computer controlled timing curve. My advice for anyone with a big stroker motor is to sell their carb and distributor and buy a Holley Sniper setup with the HyperSpark distributor. Then you get full computer control of the fuel curve and the timing curve. Point 1, it's what I have to deal with at the moment, and I never doubted your previous advice. Better to get some bushings and make it close then to leave it with what I've got,right? O2 sensors are in the short term plans, probably after the Nats. Point 2, I'm technologically about 15 years behind on my car. I just graduated from purple shaft cams and pinion snubbers. (I actually still have super stock springs for now) . Bear with me, sir, there are a lot of upgrades in the future as money and time allow.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2678390
07/17/19 06:18 PM
07/17/19 06:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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My 493 Indy head engine likes 24 base and 34 total all in at 2000 RPM. Is it a perfect street car? Probably not but then mine is an old school 10 second stick car so it drives like street/strip car. I'm gonna hook up an A/F meter this season to dial in my new cam and intake deal though. I have a mechanical Firecore distributor with no vacuum advance with a Howard's 260/264 solid cam. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: AndyF]
#2678436
07/17/19 08:15 PM
07/17/19 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Anyone modified an OEM-type vacuum advance unit to limit the travel/degrees of advance? They always seem to have too much...
Last edited by BradH; 07/17/19 08:27 PM.
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: BradH]
#2678440
07/17/19 08:33 PM
07/17/19 08:33 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225 Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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So sad people waste so much money on junky msd distributers and then need to spend more money. And than they rot from the inside out. But here are bushings to help the really crappy design of the msd https://www.ebay.com/i/222855820783...v-s-6dDraOyFDgjgVcrFk2U1W08aAtAUEALw_wcB
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135 Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: BradH]
#2678521
07/18/19 01:44 AM
07/18/19 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050 Oregon
AndyF
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,050
Oregon
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Anyone modified an OEM-type vacuum advance unit to limit the travel/degrees of advance? They always seem to have too much... I'm sure they could be modified by installing a stop but it might be easier to just change the can. I seem to recall that they came in different amounts. There is a number stamped on the can that tells the advance degrees. I used to have a box of vacuum canisters and I recall there being a few different advance amounts available.
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: BradH]
#2678535
07/18/19 06:53 AM
07/18/19 06:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243 Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
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What about the adjustable ones that used a allen wrench through the vacuum port to adjust them That feature adjusts the tension against the vacuum device, but doesn't limit the amount of advance. I don't know if a tight setting raises the required vacuum amount enough to keep the advance from using all the available arm movement. Actually, I found an old Accel file that shows the amount of advance is what is controlled by the screw, not the amount of vacuum needed. But there is a direct correlation, that when you start limiting the advance, it slightly changes the amount of vacuum required. Either way, I'm working on a stock 440 with a fairly lumpy cam and a stock converter. A shorter vacuum swing with slightly higher base seems to be where this engine likes it.
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: AndyF]
#2678536
07/18/19 06:55 AM
07/18/19 06:55 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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I know where you are coming from, I've been there myself. When I was younger I tried all sorts of stuff that people told me wouldn't work. Usually they were correct but at least I learned it for myself. Sometimes they were wrong and I figured out something new. Either way was a good experience for me.
If you have the time and patience to learn stuff the hard way then that is good since those lessons will stick with you forever. If you don't have a lot of time but you have some money then you can hire an expert to jump you to the next stage. There are pluses and minuses for each approach. Use whichever works for you. The important thing is to have a plan and to keep it fun. I'm trying to put in the time to learn it the hard way. Getting the experience and understanding of tuning and timing is going to help in the future no matter what ignition I run.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: sixpackgut]
#2678539
07/18/19 07:13 AM
07/18/19 07:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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Those are the ones I ordered.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: OhioMopar]
#2678542
07/18/19 07:23 AM
07/18/19 07:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779 Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar
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OP
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Mt.Gilead, Ohio
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So, let me pose this question. What is a good, tuneable ignition that can replace the MSD? Keep in mind, the reason I went with that is the ease of tuning. I don't have a welder to weld slots shut and then file them back open. An acquaintance that happens to need a low deck Pro-Billet distributor and I'm not attached to this one. I have an MSD box, so being compatible with that would be helpful.
1969 Dart GTS 340 1969 Super Bee X9 N-96 1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96 2015 Dodge Dart GT 2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn. Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: AndyF]
#2678566
07/18/19 09:01 AM
07/18/19 09:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,864 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
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Pattison Texas
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With the TF heads and that cam I'd start with 20 degrees initial and 34 total. For street driving you'll need some vacuum advance. The Trick Flow heads will get super hot at part throttle unless you give them some advance. If I was programming a curve I'd put 40 degrees at cruise and light throttle. Hey Andy, can you post a screen shot of said timing table you are using with the TF heads.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: What timing are you running on your 512?
[Re: krautrock]
#2678592
07/18/19 10:31 AM
07/18/19 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,377 Houston,Tx.
Lee446
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,377
Houston,Tx.
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I put the FBO plate in my Hemi, but with the vac advance hooked up, when you got off the gas after a banzai charge, it sounded like a machine gun as the 2-fours slammed shut, vac shot straight up and over-advanced. The guy at FBO told me that limiting the vac advance to add only 10-12* was the answer. I hooked my timing light up and, at idle, used the allen wrench to set it to 10* additional advance and noted the idle vac reading, this is using non-ported vac, as recommended by FBO. I shut the engine off, removed the cap and used my mity-vac to duplicate the idle vac on the advance can, used a sharpie to mark the arm where it goes out through the slot milled in the dist housing, drilled a 1/16 hole through the mark and put in a spring type roll pin, Problem solved! The pin physically limits the arm from moving further while allowing an additional 10* advance when driving normally. Backyard engineering, but it has worked fine for several years now.
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