Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
#2677226
07/13/19 11:40 PM
07/13/19 11:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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Question for the group-
Why don't all flywheel bolts have washers? Every flywheel I have ever r&r'd looked ugly where the washerless bolts contacted.
Is there any reason I should not be running flat washers here? I always use red locktite on the bolts per SOP.
Thanks for any insight on this topic.
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2677301
07/14/19 11:26 AM
07/14/19 11:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,186 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,186
PA.
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The last ARP flywheel/flexplate bolts I bought specifically said not to use washers with them.
I have no idea why. It’s been 30 years since I messed with a 727 or 904 but if I remember right they use thin headed bolts because of how close they come to the engine block. If you use a washer it would probably hit when you went to turn it.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: lancer493]
#2677350
07/14/19 04:15 PM
07/14/19 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762 Hot Rod Ridge
FastmOp
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,762
Hot Rod Ridge
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I sheared grade 8 bolts a few months ago. I noticed on the ARP bolts they have a nice flat land under the head that looks pretty nice and was bigger then the land on the grade 8 bolts ATI sends with their flywheel and spacer kit. Plus the ARP bolts are 41something chrome moly.
ATI has issues with the flex plate they sell. I reused my old one because the converter bolt pattern is wrong on the new one.
Last edited by FastmOp; 07/14/19 04:16 PM.
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: FastmOp]
#2677375
07/14/19 06:15 PM
07/14/19 06:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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If the OP is talking about an actual "flywheel" and not a flex plate you need to be careful the bolt heads don't contact the damper springs of the clutch disc like Cab said. I like the ARP bolts with a flange built in because they are easier on the flywheel. You might be able to get away with some thin hardened AN washers but double check it. Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: Jeremiah]
#2677384
07/14/19 06:58 PM
07/14/19 06:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,115 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,115
Byron, NY
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The main reasons are washers that thin will either be too soft and squeeze out or too hard(brittle) and break both conditions will cause flywheel/Flex plate to fail.
Last edited by W.I.N. racing; 07/14/19 07:11 PM.
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: Stanton]
#2677439
07/14/19 10:34 PM
07/14/19 10:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,237 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,237
Bend,OR USA
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Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!! Keep in mind that the major auto makers look at saving parts of a penny per car, they are not worried about the motor or car after the warranty runs out When it comes to high performance race parts I want to be as safe as possible, especially in the cars I build, drive and race and have to pay for the race parts Jeremiah, 55 Ft Lbs. on the stock Mopar 7/16 flywheel bolts with red Locktite
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 07/15/19 08:19 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2677510
07/15/19 09:00 AM
07/15/19 09:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,882 Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,882
Ontario, Canada
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Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!! When it comes to high performance race parts I want to as safe as possible, especially in the cars I build, drive and race and have pay to for the race parts Don't you think ARP would have tossed the idea around ?!?!?
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: Stanton]
#2677628
07/15/19 01:03 PM
07/15/19 01:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,237 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,237
Bend,OR USA
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[quote=Stanton]Millions have been built with no washers. All the flywheel bolt manufacturers DON'T supply washers. Good enough for me !!! Don't you think ARP would have tossed the idea around ?!?!? I'm sure ARP did do a lot of thinking on the Mopar Flywheel and flex plate bolts they sale, hence the thin heads on both
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: JACK1440]
#2678179
07/17/19 08:03 AM
07/17/19 08:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097 back in Georgia
dthemi
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,097
back in Georgia
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Because flywheels flex and can break hardened washers. Then you have projectiles, and a loose crank bolt.
I don't know if this is correct, but I use thread locker on the threads, and carefully brush a very small amount of lube on the flywheel where the bolt head contacts it. Torquing is smoother, and does less damage to the wheel.
Last edited by dthemi; 07/17/19 08:14 AM.
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: jlatessa]
#2678238
07/17/19 10:04 AM
07/17/19 10:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,186 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,186
PA.
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Just be very very careful with lube and loc-tite. They do not get along well together at all.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2678240
07/17/19 10:09 AM
07/17/19 10:09 AM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,318 Ohio
jlatessa
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,318
Ohio
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Noted, thanks...
Joe
Edit, By the way, I ALWAYS clean the threads, both male and female with brake clean before applying thread lockers.
Last edited by jlatessa; 07/17/19 10:13 AM.
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: dthemi]
#2678395
07/17/19 06:33 PM
07/17/19 06:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555 Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,555
Rittman Ohio
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Because flywheels flex and can break hardened washers. Then you have projectiles, and a loose crank bolt.
I don't know if this is correct, but I use thread locker on the threads, and carefully brush a very small amount of lube on the flywheel where the bolt head contacts it. Torquing is smoother, and does less damage to the wheel. I thought I was the only one that done that When I build rear ends the shur-grip gets ARP lube under the head and red on the treads,the same for ring gear bolts Gus
64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60
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Re: Flat washers under flywheel bolts?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2678495
07/17/19 11:39 PM
07/17/19 11:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100 Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,100
Rogue River, OR
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I try to use thin harden flat washers with thin head bolts, make sure the clutch anti chatter springs don't touch the bolt heads after torqueing before using it that way Don't worry there are not clutch hub springs. Those are for sissies! I have used a thin wave washers before but as mentioned a few of them came out intact however they were lightly lubricated for install. I always torque everything and a big 10-4 on the locktite. I have run solid mounts for years and a dab of red seems to be necessary in many places you would not normally have to address.
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