Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2661766
06/03/19 09:41 AM
06/03/19 09:41 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,272 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,272
north of coder
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what part are ya gonna break next ? learnin' stuff is fun ! just don't store all your info in your brain, then get old [like me]. it gets lost there....... just my experience - your mileage may vary.
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: moparx]
#2662712
06/05/19 04:08 PM
06/05/19 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688 Philadelphia
radar
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688
Philadelphia
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Hopefully I’ll get to find out soon but I only wanna break traction! I got the old trans out today. Autopsy is tonite but I don’t anticipate finding anything spectacular inside. At this point I’m basically going to swap out my good valvebody, make a front clutch restrictor for the new case, and build up this other ‘77 case I got with most of the guts from the other and some goodies from A&A whenever they arrive in the mail.
My dad always said if you’re gonna do something do it the best you can- I think windowing the case is about as far in that direction I want to go. Carnage is fun until you need a broom and stitches.
Last edited by radar; 06/05/19 04:09 PM.
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2664135
06/09/19 07:37 PM
06/09/19 07:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,985 MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,985
MI, usa
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I hammered (plastic deadblow) the gear train off the output shaft to see what was going on in there.
It looks like the aluminum splines on the front planetary gearset were starting to twist? I’m thinking this might have happened when the power going to the broken yoke/off center driveshaft turned into a shock load on the output shaft- more like evidence of the failure than a possible cause? This is what I call a wear item in my race trans. When they won't slide off it's time for a new one. Look at it from the rear. Are the splines helical? Never had one completely fail. Current one has about 200 passes on it and still slides fine. I keep thinking about upgrading but since it hasn't failed I'll stick with it. I've only replaced one in 550 passes. Doug
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2664365
06/10/19 12:04 PM
06/10/19 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545
Rio Linda, CA
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4.2 lever, controlled load defeated w set screw 1.25 turns out . Kinda tight. 1.75 would be better.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2664390
06/10/19 01:17 PM
06/10/19 01:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,272 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 20,272
north of coder
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radar, does the billit rear servo come with the HD retainer plate ? is that plate heavier material, or just stronger ? if it's heavier, how much thicker is it ? i have always wondered about that, but i never had one in my grimy mitts to measure, and of the guys i personally know, i never thought to ask them before they had it installed. mr. kunkle, what is your opinion on using ALL of the billet servo pistons instead of just the reverse and accumulator ones ? prettiness aside, of course. also, is any one supplier of these better than the others, or is just one outfit making them, then differentiating the companies by just the anodizing color ?
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: moparx]
#2664432
06/10/19 02:44 PM
06/10/19 02:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545
Rio Linda, CA
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Personally, I see no need for the billet front servo and accumulator piston if you have serviceable factory parts. Sure, there are documented cases of failures of the servo but it's not epidemic.
The heavy rear servo spring is known to distort the stamped retainer, the retainer supplied with the billet servo kits is heavier.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2664738
06/11/19 12:22 PM
06/11/19 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688 Philadelphia
radar
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688
Philadelphia
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4.2 lever, controlled load defeated w set screw 1.25 turns out . Kinda tight. 1.75 would be better. John thank you so much for carefully reading my buildup specs and offering a helpful change on the kickdown band adjustment. Plus it’s a real easy one to fix! Moparax like John said the kit replaces the flimsy steel collar with a nice billet piece. It’s not overly thick but plenty to stay rigid and do the job. I had to re-use the blocker and spring from my tf2 modded stock setup but the AA kit had the piston with seals installed, the retainer plate, and a new snapring. Plus photocopied instructions. It is so nice to have the trans buttoned up and be able to make sawdust and do metal fabrication again in my little garage! Much thanks for all the support here Radar
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2664774
06/11/19 01:55 PM
06/11/19 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545
Rio Linda, CA
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As for the accumulator - the aluminum ones - agreed, but the glass reinforced plastic ones should be replaced. We regularly saw those broken or on their way out - in core coming in from the field.
Yeah, I shoulda said factory "metal" piston. The plastic ones were a bad idea.
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#2664831
06/11/19 05:33 PM
06/11/19 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688 Philadelphia
radar
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,688
Philadelphia
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Hey while we’re talking about accumulators- I have seen a bunch of different blocker designs from 3/8” to 1/2” thick rods. The A&A blocker photo in the Munroe book is a piece of tubing like motorcycle handlebar or something.
All are 2 15/16”-3” long. I understand that John always likes to keep the spring and not block it to keep from breaking stuff/accelerating wear. My ‘77 trans (both of them) had springs between the valvebody and piston but none under the piston. I kept it there like John says despite the temptation to possibly chirp the 1-2 shift at light throttle?
Anyway my confusion is if I were to block it how does the blocker work if it is just rattling around in there? Or does it just cock at an angle and stay that way? Or does it limit travel to just a teeny tiny amount so the piston never gets the speed up to slam around?
Thanks
Last edited by radar; 06/11/19 05:36 PM.
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2665120
06/12/19 12:49 PM
06/12/19 12:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545
Rio Linda, CA
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Removing the spring between the VB and piston WILL NOT firm the 1-2 shift, the accumulator's cushioning effect on the 1-2 shift is strictly hydraulic i.e. as long as the piston is free to move it will cushion the 1-2 shift....spring or not. Blocking the piston simply stops the accumulator's function.
Blocker rods are typically 3" or slightly less. Tube or rod will work, the MP blocker is tubing. It's important that the blocker doesn't push the piston so far out of its bore that it keeps the VB from seating properly against the case.
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Re: 727 case & guts interchange?
[Re: radar]
#2665500
06/13/19 01:10 PM
06/13/19 01:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26,545
Rio Linda, CA
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The piston is hollow, so no chance of the blocker cocking enough to cause a problem. Even if the blocker was a little short, gravity would keep it pretty well centered in the piston cavity.
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