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Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Snoopy] #265363
03/24/09 10:36 PM
03/24/09 10:36 PM
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For you guys that have studied these, what do you see? photo 1 of 4;

Edit, wording is not easy to read, it says;

DELMAN C 3873 A

5116930-1wm.JPG (294 downloads)
Last edited by Alaskan_TA; 03/24/09 10:40 PM.
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265364
03/24/09 10:36 PM
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5116931-2wm.JPG (264 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265365
03/24/09 10:37 PM
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5116933-3wm.JPG (193 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265366
03/24/09 10:37 PM
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Last one.

5116938-4wm.JPG (199 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Snoopy] #265367
03/24/09 10:44 PM
03/24/09 10:44 PM
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Quote:

Bill R,
I wonder if 3431295 was a production line part that never made it to the dealer. Chrysler would have assigned a new part number for a new part and put it in the Parts Book. But never put it in the supply chain because there was already a suitable substitute available, 2809013. That may explain the lack of NOS 3431295 pumps.

Just thinking out-loud.




Going from memory here at home (my price books are at my warehouse), I seem to remember something weird about the 3431295 either not being in my 9/1/70 and/or 5/1/71 PRICE books, or superceded very quickly. I will check tomorrow.

BR

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265368
03/24/09 10:46 PM
03/24/09 10:46 PM
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Quote:

2




3431295, and the nipple points toward the fan blade:

How about that!

I will need to check my 71 bottles tomorrow for the number stampings on them.

BR

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: floyd] #265369
03/24/09 11:05 PM
03/24/09 11:05 PM
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This was an area that we researched for months trying to find the reasoning for the various styles. One of the first things that someone needs to do is document and research ONLY original cars and their applications. You can reference all the NOS pieces in the world but remember that none of them were installed on a vehicle, so no conclusion can be drawn regarding their actual application. Every original 1970 vehicle that we inspected had the “down” style outlet. EVERY original 1971 vehicle we inspected had the “side” style outlet.
The E Body was a new vehicle for 1970. In that particular year, the outlet pointed down towards the frame rail on production line E bodies. As many of you know, this made it very difficult to remove or install the rubber hose.

In 1971, Chrysler redesigned the pump (side outlet) to help facilitate the installation of this particular part. It saved a lot of aggravation in trying to connect the hose for the workers on the assembly line. The problem with this scenario was that in 1972 Chrysler completely redesigned the E Body washer bottle and the early 1970 style pump worked better for the new design. Since the 1971 style ended up being a one year only part, the majority of NOS replacement pumps were manufactured to accommodate the majority of the manufactured years. (They were not concerned with how hard it was for someone to service or replace the part. That is why 99% of the NOS pieces have the down type outlet.) The “down” outlet version was used in 1970, 72, 73 and 74. I still have many of the old units (from the 1970 and 1971) that we removed from original E Body cars. As stated before, every original 1970 had the down type outlet and every original 1971 we documented had the side type outlet! Bill Rolik posted two pictures of original samples where the outlets point towards the engine compartment. I would guarantee that both of those units are from original 1971 vehicles.
Care to verify Mr. Bill?

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: bremotorsports] #265370
03/24/09 11:08 PM
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Closeup of Barry's pump markings.
335 9 = Dec 1, 1969

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Snoopy] #265371
03/24/09 11:15 PM
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Quote:

Closeup of Barry's pump markings.
335 9 = Dec 1, 1969




I just looked at the photo again and it appears to be a side outlet version. That is the first I have seen with a 70 date application. We documented nine original 70 ebodies and seven original 71 ebodies. All of them had the different/contrasting style pumps!

Last edited by ECS; 03/24/09 11:23 PM.
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: ECS] #265372
03/24/09 11:20 PM
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Dave
Take a look at Barry's first and last pictures. The nipple is not pointing down, but off to the side.

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: ECS] #265373
03/24/09 11:22 PM
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Quote:

Notice that this is a 1970 "down" outlet version pump!




Yep, it points towards the fan.

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265374
03/24/09 11:27 PM
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Thanks Barry. (I just edited my post.) I even had two assembly line workers tell me that scenario. Bill Embree, who was one of them, even has a copy of the enginnering change order that spelled out why they were changed! Very weird.

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265375
03/24/09 11:28 PM
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A down-pointer I have here;
photo 1 of 2;

5117055-001.JPG (292 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265376
03/24/09 11:29 PM
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2;

5117061-002.JPG (195 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265377
03/24/09 11:39 PM
03/24/09 11:39 PM
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It would be interesting to look at a 70 Only parts book prior to May 70 and see exactly when p/n 3431295 first showed up. I have a May 70 copy and it is not listed as being new to that edition. I know Tom Race has a Sept 69 copy, maybe he can chime in if he is around.

Also it is listed as 70 only in the 70-71 parts book.

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: ECS] #265378
03/24/09 11:42 PM
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Quote:

This was an area that we researched for months trying to find the reasoning for the various styles. One of the first things that someone needs to do is document and research ONLY original cars and their applications. You can reference all the NOS pieces in the world but remember that none of them were installed on a vehicle, so no conclusion can be drawn regarding their actual application. Every original 1970 vehicle that we inspected had the “down” style outlet. EVERY original 1971 vehicle we inspected had the “side” style outlet.
The E Body was a new vehicle for 1970. In that particular year, the outlet pointed down towards the frame rail on production line E bodies. As many of you know, this made it very difficult to remove or install the rubber hose.

In 1971, Chrysler redesigned the pump (side outlet) to help facilitate the installation of this particular part. It saved a lot of aggravation in trying to connect the hose for the workers on the assembly line. The problem with this scenario was that in 1972 Chrysler completely redesigned the E Body washer bottle and the early 1970 style pump worked better for the new design. Since the 1971 style ended up being a one year only part, the majority of NOS replacement pumps were manufactured to accommodate the majority of the manufactured years. (They were not concerned with how hard it was for someone to service or replace the part. That is why 99% of the NOS pieces have the down type outlet.) The “down” outlet version was used in 1970, 72, 73 and 74. I still have many of the old units (from the 1970 and 1971) that we removed from original E Body cars. As stated before, every original 1970 had the down type outlet and every original 1971 we documented had the side type outlet! Bill Rolik posted two pictures of original samples where the outlets point towards the engine compartment. I would guarantee that both of those units are from original 1971 vehicles.
Care to verify Mr. Bill?




Yes, both are originals from my own vehicles. I will have their numbers and vendor codes tomorrow. By the way: Per our conversion earlier this evening...Get a real phone. Either that, or you did not pay your cellular bill

BR

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Snoopy] #265379
03/24/09 11:55 PM
03/24/09 11:55 PM

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3431295--------- 70 variable speed e-body

Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps #265380
03/25/09 12:10 AM
03/25/09 12:10 AM
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This one is from a 1970 Valiant 4-door. Note that it has the locating tab, but the part number is the same as photo 2 above from an E-Body motor with no tab. The part of the housing (elbow) that attaches to the tank is different as well.

5117113-003.JPG (201 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: Alaskan_TA] #265381
03/25/09 12:10 AM
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Part number;

5117117-004.JPG (186 downloads)
Re: Correct 70-71 E-Body Windshield Washer Pumps [Re: bremotorsports] #265382
03/25/09 12:13 AM
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Quote:

By the way: Per our conversion earlier this evening...Get a real phone. Either that, or you did not pay your cellular bill

BR




Bill, I wouldn't know about that "not paying my bill" thing! Are you speaking from experience? (I have three other cell phones....maybe I should give you one of those numbers.) Talk to you later Mr. B!

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