Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Wirenut]
#2644546
04/12/19 09:27 PM
04/12/19 09:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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typical partly plug rad will show up at higher RPM's (eng producing more heat/rad cant keep up). I'm trying to decipher what is changing but nothing is jumping out at me. You're sure nothing has been changed/altered? It ain't making sense (but we love the toughies!). If it was OK WO a shroud then it oughta stay that way but SOMETHING is slowly changing/deteriorating & that is what we need to figure out. The cooling system will hold psi when hot/set overnight?
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2644584
04/12/19 11:54 PM
04/12/19 11:54 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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typical partly plug rad will show up at higher RPM's (eng producing more heat/rad cant keep up). I'm trying to decipher what is changing but nothing is jumping out at me. You're sure nothing has been changed/altered? It ain't making sense (but we love the toughies!). If it was OK WO a shroud then it oughta stay that way but SOMETHING is slowly changing/deteriorating & that is what we need to figure out. The cooling system will hold psi when hot/set overnight? Yeah that’s pretty much it . Figure I would try a shroud. The only other factor is she’s getting older and has racked up 75 k or so since the last rebuild
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Wirenut]
#2644641
04/13/19 09:38 AM
04/13/19 09:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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It might be the Hayden #2765 that is 2.67" long. EDIT & the cooling psi holding I was thinking of a potential slightly increasing head gasket leak. (& it may be as simple as the rad). I would want it at 185 or above with a confirmed accurate gauge.
Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/13/19 09:40 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Supercuda]
#2644659
04/13/19 10:20 AM
04/13/19 10:20 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
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Ct
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Ok thanks . Way out of the budget for this ride. Perhaps it’s time to fab or modify something.
Last edited by Wirenut; 04/13/19 10:22 AM.
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2644661
04/13/19 10:21 AM
04/13/19 10:21 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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It might be the Hayden #2765 that is 2.67" long. EDIT & the cooling psi holding I was thinking of a potential slightly increasing head gasket leak. (& it may be as simple as the rad). I would want it at 185 or above with a confirmed accurate gauge. Thanks I will check it out
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Wirenut]
#2644664
04/13/19 10:29 AM
04/13/19 10:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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You should also remember that in 70the lower outlet changed. If you are running an aluminum water pump then it's the later style, if you are running an iron water pump it's the early style, If you are indeed running the later A body radiator like you think then https://www.classicindustries.com/product/1972/dodge/dart/parts/ma2228.html
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Wirenut]
#2644681
04/13/19 11:03 AM
04/13/19 11:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284
Benton, IL.
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No, all 22" shrouds are not the same. You will need to know what the radiator was designed to fit to get the application for the shroud. And the clutch is a good idea, it reduces drag on the engine, but it will not do anything for the over temp issue you are experiencing. Your '65 did not come with one and it cooled fine then.
A good rule of thumb that we have always used to help solve over temp problems is; over temp only at slow vehicle speeds is usually an air flow issue, while road speed only over temp issues are usually water flow related. Now that is a very general statement, but does help narrow down the problem most of the time.
So, since your car controls it's temp at road speed, it is probably getting enough water circulating. At least at higher than idle engine speed. But it is possible that there is not enough water circulation at idle. Mopar used a number of different sized pulleys on the crank and water pump so different pulleys can be used to vary the water pump/ fan speed at idle. A quick test you can run is to set the idle up 300 RPM or so and see if that helps at all with the over temp.
And before you pull the radiator to have it cleaned, you can take a temp gun and go across the radiator when the engine is up to temp. If the temps are consistent across it, then you don't have any significant blockage. If the radiator has blockages, you will have much warmer and cooler areas. Then there's the fact that it cools going down the road which indicates that the water flow is at least adequate. But remember that the air flow through the radiator does increase substantially at road speed.
Next, how close is your fan to your radiator? A shroud is a very good idea and may end up being necessary, but having the fan close enough to the radiator might do the trick too. Then there's the fan itself. How much air does it move? If you do go to a clutch, you will need a different fan for it. And it will need to match the shroud, if you get one.
Can you post a picture or two of your fan/radiator so we can see what you have?
Master, again and still
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Supercuda]
#2644741
04/13/19 01:35 PM
04/13/19 01:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954 Blairsden, CA
Triggerfish
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,954
Blairsden, CA
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That's the one I'm getting for my 64 Belvedere's 383. They sell the mounts for it, too. Seen these metal shrouds on ebag, too.
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Supercuda]
#2644939
04/14/19 09:03 AM
04/14/19 09:03 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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Thanks for this . Looks like the right piece and price is a little easier to digest. G
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: DaveRS23]
#2644940
04/14/19 09:06 AM
04/14/19 09:06 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
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No, all 22" shrouds are not the same. You will need to know what the radiator was designed to fit to get the application for the shroud. And the clutch is a good idea, it reduces drag on the engine, but it will not do anything for the over temp issue you are experiencing. Your '65 did not come with one and it cooled fine then.
A good rule of thumb that we have always used to help solve over temp problems is; over temp only at slow vehicle speeds is usually an air flow issue, while road speed only over temp issues are usually water flow related. Now that is a very general statement, but does help narrow down the problem most of the time.
So, since your car controls it's temp at road speed, it is probably getting enough water circulating. At least at higher than idle engine speed. But it is possible that there is not enough water circulation at idle. Mopar used a number of different sized pulleys on the crank and water pump so different pulleys can be used to vary the water pump/ fan speed at idle. A quick test you can run is to set the idle up 300 RPM or so and see if that helps at all with the over temp.
And before you pull the radiator to have it cleaned, you can take a temp gun and go across the radiator when the engine is up to temp. If the temps are consistent across it, then you don't have any significant blockage. If the radiator has blockages, you will have much warmer and cooler areas. Then there's the fact that it cools going down the road which indicates that the water flow is at least adequate. But remember that the air flow through the radiator does increase substantially at road speed.
Next, how close is your fan to your radiator? A shroud is a very good idea and may end up being necessary, but having the fan close enough to the radiator might do the trick too. Then there's the fan itself. How much air does it move? If you do go to a clutch, you will need a different fan for it. And it will need to match the shroud, if you get one.
Thanks Dave a lot of good troubleshooting ideas hear.
Fan is about 1.5 to 2” from the radiator.
Have tried multiple fans no change.
I have a mopar clutch fan in the box but the clutch is too deep.
Can you post a picture or two of your fan/radiator so we can see what you have?
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Wirenut]
#2644960
04/14/19 10:30 AM
04/14/19 10:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284
Benton, IL.
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Yes, I can post a pic or two but it won't help you much. I have a 26" OE style radiator with shroud in an E body with a Hemi. Using an HD clutch with a cut down truck fan. It really moves a lot of air and doesn't have any trouble keeping the big Hemi cool, even in traffic.
I also had a Hemi in an A body, but I used an aluminum radiator and the Mercedes electric fan on that one. That fan moved a lot of air, too and kept that Hemi cool.
I had always used the Mr Gasket hi flow thermostats in my Mopars, but the last 2 that I have had have failed very soon after install. I now use the Stant Superstat or the Motorad Fail-Safes. They do not flow as much as the Mr Gasket thermostats, but I haven't had any failures from them. I always drill a couple extra holes in my thermostats for just that little bit more flow and it makes filling the radiator just that much quicker. It may slow down the warm up time by a little, but the big Hemi makes enough heat that I can't really tell any difference.
Based on the info you have provided, I believe your issue is air flow at low speed. A fan that moves more air, getting the fan you have closer to the radiator, speeding the pump and fan up at idle, and maybe a shroud with it's correct fan would be things I would suggest trying. And again, posting pics of your radiator/fan for these guys to see would be a good idea.
Master, again and still
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: RapidRobert]
#2644964
04/14/19 10:40 AM
04/14/19 10:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 77 South East Ontario, Canada
Ramtough
member
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member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 77
South East Ontario, Canada
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typical partly plug rad will show up at higher RPM's (eng producing more heat/rad cant keep up). I'm trying to decipher what is changing but nothing is jumping out at me. You're sure nothing has been changed/altered? It ain't making sense (but we love the toughies!). If it was OK WO a shroud then it oughta stay that way but SOMETHING is slowly changing/deteriorating & that is what we need to figure out. The cooling system will hold psi when hot/set overnight? Partly plugged rad can show up at idle also, my 67 Charger always got hot in traffic, parades, in and out of heavy car show parking, had rad re-cored last spring, last year coming out of Moparfest, in line for almost 1 hour, never got over 185 on a 90 degree day.
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Ramtough]
#2644999
04/14/19 11:52 AM
04/14/19 11:52 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630 Ct
Wirenut
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 630
Ct
|
typical partly plug rad will show up at higher RPM's (eng producing more heat/rad cant keep up). I'm trying to decipher what is changing but nothing is jumping out at me. You're sure nothing has been changed/altered? It ain't making sense (but we love the toughies!). If it was OK WO a shroud then it oughta stay that way but SOMETHING is slowly changing/deteriorating & that is what we need to figure out. The cooling system will hold psi when hot/set overnight? Partly plugged rad can show up at idle also, my 67 Charger always got hot in traffic, parades, in and out of heavy car show parking, had rad re-cored last spring, last year coming out of Moparfest, in line for almost 1 hour, never got over 185 on a 90 degree day. That’s impressive! Going to put the temp gun to it today. I ordered a shroud . I will report back
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Re: Shroud / fan clutch Q's
[Re: Ramtough]
#2645004
04/14/19 12:01 PM
04/14/19 12:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284 Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,284
Benton, IL.
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A partly plugged up radiator is about the easiest of our cooling problems to diagnose. With a tempo gun, a simple scan of the radiator surface when warmed up will show any significant temp differences. And compromised water flow could impact the engine's temp at any speed. But if your over temp issue was only at low speeds, it is hard to see how it would cool okay under load and at hiway speed. Both of which puts more load on the engine and cooling system than idling does and would require more water flow.
Master, again and still
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