I have a question for the machinists: My early Hemi in my coupe has orings in the block, but no receiver groove in the head. I have to use copper head gaskes because the the notch in the top of the bore for intake valve clearance. With the oring wire standing .̶0̶2̶0̶ .008 above the deck, these gaskets are tuff to get to seal the water. So I was thinking next time I have it apart, I will cut grooves in the heads. I could set it up in the bridgeport and use a boring head. My question is, how can I precisely position the cut so the wire ring and the receive groove line up perfectly? I have ideas, but none of them seem too precise. Thanks, Joel

You could fill the groove with copper rings and file them down then
use a quality multi layer gaskets the right thickness

Put the wire in the block. This wire will be thrown away. Put bluing on the cylinder head. Put the heads on the block and torque them down to about 50-60 pounds and let them sit a few minutes. Pull the heads off and you will have a witness mark to machine the groove.

Put the head in your mill and indicate it in and machine the groove.

The wire in the block needs to be thrown away and it will be flat. I always run the wire in the head and use the block as the reciever.

Mr. P., back in 2017 when I had this apart for new pistons, I asked Cometic to make a MLS gasket that would clear the valve notch. They said no can do.

Madster, I considered that method, but since I would be indicating in the mill via a visual reference to the witness mark, I was unsure if I could get it precise enough. It seems that every precise thing I try to do that involves trusting my own eyesight gets horribly botched. Vs. things that involve precision measuring devises, edge finders, etc., they work out really well. If that's my only choice, I'll do it. Question: why do you prefer the wire to be in the head?

You can also pull the wire, and buy a cometic gasket for a larger bore size (sealing area outside your notch) and do nothing else.

Thanks DT, that's what I had asked them to do 2 years ago. Maybe their capabilities have improved since then, I'll try them again next time. That would be ideal, I don't like copper head gaskets.

As long as you set your tool to the correct diameter it's pretty easy to center over the witness Mark. As long as you indicate the had in so its just a matter of moving in the X axis once you've centered up on the Y axis it's pretty easy. It's really not that bad to do if you get the tooling the correct diameter.

As for using the block as the receiver it's a habit. On wedge heads it gets pretty thin between the cylinders and having the groove in the head with no wire I've seen enough heat build up on some blown stuff it collapsed the head there. Putting the wire on the head gives it some support. So we started putting the wire in the head all the time and just using the block for the receiver. On an iron head I've never seen a failure there, but it isn't worth the risk. So I just run the wire in the head to help support the thin areas.

Indicate and center the quill over the bore.
Boring head set to the correct diameter and boom.
Oooops........I am thinking block.
Geeze......I'm not sure how you'd pick up on the head , but the witness mark and eye it up seems to make the most sense.

Have you contacted SCE gaskets for their Titan series copper head gaskets with the embossed Teflon sealing rings on them? If not maybe you should Try calling them at 661-728-9200
I hope they still sell 331/392 hemi type head gaskets
They've been bought out, sold and moved the company head quarters twice in the last three years

I started out with the SCE Titan gaskets, but there was compatibility issues with the aluminum hot heads as far as water and steam hole locations. Nick smithberg, who set up my heads, is working with SCE to develop a gasket that will work with the aluminum hot heads, and has the correct notch to clear his big intake valves. So far, from what I've heard it is not ready yet. We've been hearing about this for quite a long time. Hopefully it will be available by the time I need to teardown this motor again.

The titan SCE copper with the stainless wire inside the gasket at the bores are great gaskets. I've been using a set on a 12:1 14/71 blown hemi for a long time, even re using them. The motor has no wire or grooves. When I pull the heads, just wipe them off with lacquer thinner, spray them down with coppercoat, and back in service. The silicone embossing for water, and oil stay on the gasket, just flattened out, but no leaks.

I've pulled wire out of both, with and without receivers, and just slapped cometics on with zero issues too.

I fully understand the need for wire, and receiver grooves on seriously high hp stuff. Copper with wire is just a leak waiting to happen, or it has been for me at least.

I tigged the o-ring closed than shaved the head clean.I use Cometics and no issue to 10 lbs of boost.

I hate to suggest this but if the o-ring wire is standing too proud in the block groove, why can't you just cut the block groove deeper?

The wire is only .020 above the deck. it is working now, and not leaking. I have read that it is easier to seal the water when there is a receiver groove, because the area of the gasket that is not touching the o-ring gets better compression.

Cometic told me that for this engine they will not make gasket that has a fire ring with an ID large enough to clear my intake valve notch. That is why I have a copper gasket and an oringed block.

This is only 13.5 to 1, but as long as I'm forced to use the copper gasket, I don't want to skip the o-ring because this is a drag week car. It needs to be dead nuts reliable. Head gasket issues at a track that I drove 1200 miles to, or when I'm on the drag week road trip driving across a mountain somewhere between tracks is not an option

That's the only real issue with dead soft copper gaskets and O-rings. Sealing water and oil. Other than that they will outsell an MLS gasket from a combustion standpoint all day long. I've tried everything under the sun and the best thing I can offer for a DW car is use hylomar around the oil and water ports and use Evans coolant. I know it's expensive and a royal PITA on some issues, but it doesn't need or make pressure in the system. So rather than have 16 PSI (or whatever cap pressure you use) you'll have essentially zero coolant system pressure. This makes it much more simple to seal the water jackets up with your copper gaskets.

I use Evans in my DD and I would never go back to conventional coolants. I'll gladly pay for Evans.

.020 is too tall out of the block. They have a formula for calculating ring height, as different thickness gaskets compress more or less. My experience has been that .010 out of the block with a .020 to 040 gasket, this seals good and you will get no water leaks. No copper gasket with out groove in the head requires more than .012 height in my experience. They make a thin silicone for motor cycle covers and other metal to metal applications called motoseal , just take a small paint brush and dab a little around each water port, and you will have no water leaks.

https://scegaskets.com/wp_super_faq/titan-pro-gasket-installation/

https://www.permatex.com/products/uncategorized/permatex-motoseal-1-ultimate-gasket-maker-gre

Oops, I made a mistake in my post. Brain fade.... I checked my notes, The o-ring protrudes .008 above the deck. I edited the prior post.

The easy and cheap way of transferring the o-ring alignment from the block to the head is to use a set if thin copper head gaskets.Put the gasket on the block and install the head,torque and remove keeping the right and left side gaskets and heads together.The dowel pins in the block are the alignment indicators for the block,gasket and head.Use a extra set of dowel pins and place them in the dowel holes in the head,lay the gasket on the head indicating with the dowel pins.Use a fine center punch and punch through the gasket in the marked groove left by the o-ring at each 90degrees or more around the head surface.Use these punch marks to indicate your mill tool.

Look at step 3 in the SCE instructions. They are talking about NOT using a reciever groove. A .020 protrusion isn't an issue done correctly with a reciever groove. If you are using an .042 wire, that .018-.020 is about correct according to the machinist handbook. I really don't care what SCE says when they don't tell you to use a reciever groove.

The guy in the post does not have a receiver groove. He wants to cut one, which is OK with the .020 ring height. But that takes an endmill and someone smart enough to use it. put the ring in with .010 protrusion install a gasket and go. Never had a copper head gasket fail using this method in 40 years of doing it. Seen lots leak water and screw up with the tall protrusion. ran 15 to 1 n/a and supercharged 10% overdriven with no receiver grooves cut in the heads. One reason I don't cut the heads is ever try and sell a set of heads with grooves cut in them?