Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: dvw]
#2619546
02/10/19 08:54 PM
02/10/19 08:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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Wasn't there like a B-1 cylinder head that was used in Pro Stock back in the day that could make some big horsepower on a wedge..
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619548
02/10/19 08:55 PM
02/10/19 08:55 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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Being a wedge (closed chamber, quench, parallel valves inclined at a small angle to the bore axis, just like the 1949 Cadillac and Oldsmobile) isn't the problem. The LS makes the common observation that "engines are more successful as they approach hemi design" a far stretch - the hemi is, by the away, many decades older, Harley-Davidson since 1926. The iron Sportster and Chrysler 392 are remarkably similar (both 1957) and both to WW1 aircraft engines. Kaase remarked years ago that the correct intake valve was the biggest one you could fit, and the exhaust valve gets whatever room is left. "All big blocks have inadequate valve area" (Vizard).
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619552
02/10/19 09:02 PM
02/10/19 09:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 213 poughquag, NY
440GTX
enthusiast
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enthusiast
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poughquag, NY
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I've been running big block mopar for all most 40 years the problem there's very little RD I think the hemi got all the Rd in the early years I worked a machine shop for 15 years I cut up more 906 and 915 heads to look at core shift my 67 gtx with 512 with steel heads went 12.20 and drove it every were B1s a good set flow 400 in the intake I ran B1s up to 5 years ago they haven't changed that much my 588 with B1s from best made 1050 hp and went 8.20 at 2800 pounds I now run a set of heavily port Indy 600-13 XXX head with the help of Mike Sanders Chuck from Best and Tod Goodwin these heads flow over 500 on the intake and 390 on the exhaust we are still learning this combo the motor has made well over 1200 hp and 900 ft pounds of torque we raised the in and the ex a 1/2 inch cost come into a factor I've been very lucky to get the help to keep racing Mr Sanders and Best Machine can't say enough
Last edited by 440GTX; 02/10/19 09:10 PM.
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: 440GTX]
#2619586
02/10/19 10:27 PM
02/10/19 10:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,187 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact. N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section
Alan Jones
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: LA360]
#2619587
02/10/19 10:30 PM
02/10/19 10:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact. N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section Put a B1 head on a 400 inch BB and it will kill any SB. Every. Single. Time.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: madscientist]
#2619601
02/10/19 11:00 PM
02/10/19 11:00 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,279
PA.
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If any of you small block guys are looking for any of these beasts just go on Facebook. Seems to be a fad going on now to have someone build you one, dyno it, and sell it. Take your pick and bolt it in. Lol
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: madscientist]
#2619603
02/10/19 11:07 PM
02/10/19 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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On a Big block Mopar there isn't a head available that can make the HP/ci comparable to small blocks, that's just a simple fact. N/A power, RPM is king and the available heads don't have the port cross section Put a B1 head on a 400 inch BB and it will kill any SB. Every. Single. Time. . This is an interesting idea how short could you get a deck on a big block.. and would the head work on this short of a stroke motor
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: AndyF]
#2619647
02/11/19 12:43 AM
02/11/19 12:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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Yeah I think Mazzolini had a 383 with B1 heads a few years back. 8500 rpm shift points or something crazy like that. I don't know what the power level was but I'm sure it was up there. A combination like that would be a good match for a big inch SB with killer heads. The inches are about the same and the head flow would probably be roughly the same. The big block has larger bore size and room for bigger valves so it might hold its own. Probably comes down to who is building the engine and who is paying the bills. Mazolini first 417 C.I. B1 motor was bought from Koffels which had been in there Comp eliminator car, it was a KB block with 4.5 bore and a stroke short enough to make that C.I.. He put in his 1964 Savoy SS car to make it into a SS/BM, he would shift it right at 8600 RPM, if he miss the shift by 150 RPM it would pull one or more of the 5/16 bolts that held the T&D rocker stands out His second motor had a set of B1-MC heads on it and it was smaller, 411 C.I. I think he still has that motor Short stroke, large bore, big heads
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619649
02/11/19 12:48 AM
02/11/19 12:48 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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New York
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The big block has larger bore size and room for bigger valves so it might hold its own
This^^^
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: polyspheric]
#2619677
02/11/19 05:02 AM
02/11/19 05:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,187 Melbourne , Australia
LA360
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Melbourne , Australia
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In theory this may be true, but a B1 headed 400 would be challenging getting the valvetrain to live past 10K RPM
Finding a block would be a challenge these days I'd think as well. On paper you'd be right.
Deck height would want to be 9" or there abouts.
It's not a combo that hasn't really made its place in Super Stock or Comp, the destroked Hemi 99 engines in Comp have seemed to be replaced by the P5 stuff
Alan Jones
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619780
02/11/19 12:48 PM
02/11/19 12:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Thanks Clinton!! Your doing all the R&D to make a reasonably price big HP big block,Sold by BEST!!!
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2619791
02/11/19 01:07 PM
02/11/19 01:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,573 Tulsa, Oklahoma
340Cuda
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Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Mazolini first 417 C.I. B1 motor was bought from Koffels which had been in there Comp eliminator car, it was a KB block with 4.5 bore and a stroke short enough to make that C.I.. He put in his 1964 Savoy SS car to make it into a SS/BM, he would shift it right at 8600 RPM, if he miss the shift by 150 RPM it would pull one or more of the 5/16 bolts that held the T&D rocker stands out His second motor had a set of B1-MC heads on it and it was smaller, 411 C.I. I think he still has that motor Short stroke, large bore, big heads An impressive combination for sure. However if it was such a great engine why is Bob or one of his group running it anymore?
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: 340Cuda]
#2619834
02/11/19 02:23 PM
02/11/19 02:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,882
Bend,OR USA
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I think the first one got sold to a friend( plumber?) of Bobs who may still be racing it. He still has the other one with the M.C heads, he had a lot of trouble with those head killing the rear exhaust valve springs in one run due to poor coolant circulation I have a set of M.C. also, I hope mine don't do that on a Koleno block
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619842
02/11/19 02:42 PM
02/11/19 02:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,585 Fulton County, PA
CMcAllister
Mr. Helpful
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Mr. Helpful
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,585
Fulton County, PA
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A 400" big bore, short stroke, 10,000RPM big block is a pretty exotic piece for most people reading this.
If the results don't match the theory, change the theory.
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: CMcAllister]
#2619855
02/11/19 03:03 PM
02/11/19 03:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
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master
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Washington
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A 400" big bore, short stroke, 10,000RPM big block is a pretty exotic piece for most people reading this. A single 4 and correctly sized heads won't need 10k. 8500-8800 is a pedestrian RPM today and that should be all it would need. Also, cam timing would be relatively short. That's also a bonus. The better the head, the less timing you need to get the same RPM.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619871
02/11/19 03:22 PM
02/11/19 03:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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I agree - if the heads work, the cam can be less violent. Reasons why down-sizing an engine by stroke reduction doesn't always track: it throws anything you learned w/r/t chamber shape, dome shape, spark advance, plenum size, and especially cam events over the cliff. You're walking on new thin ice. A traditional hemi (deep section, they're not actually a "half sphere") is a liability without enough displacement to keep the piston shape out of the chamber during overlap. Back in the day, de-stroking a 354 or 331 to get 300" (Bonneville etc.) failed in favor of DeSoto engines with smaller chambers and longer strokes.
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: polyspheric]
#2619914
02/11/19 05:00 PM
02/11/19 05:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,036 bean town ....Ca
WHITEDART
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There was a big block wedge that ran N/A 10.5 Out here on the west coast it was owned by Chris.i thank it ran low 8s..not sure how big it was. maybe some one would remember..
In the 8s N/A.with Brett miller W8's 5.07 at 133 at 2700lb
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Re: Small Block vs Big Block
[Re: WHITEDART]
#2619984
02/11/19 07:39 PM
02/11/19 07:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498 El Dorado Ca
65signet
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 498
El Dorado Ca
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A gen 3 hemi is a small block, and they sure make a lot power for not much cubic inch.
1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA 1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads
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