Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: GTX MATT]
#2601030
01/03/19 05:43 PM
01/03/19 05:43 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,161 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,161
Mesa, Arizona
|
Just changed over the Flowmasters this morning. Went with a generic turbo muffler. A lot quieter, no drone and has a nice rumble.
Last edited by dart4forte; 01/03/19 05:44 PM.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Neil]
#2601220
01/03/19 11:52 PM
01/03/19 11:52 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
|
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
I don't believe muffler flow bench numbers and I don't believe cylinder head flow bench numbers. Some made up machine cannot duplicate the airflow capacity of a running engine.
Hmmm...sounds like the words from a guy representing Flowmaster!
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Neil]
#2601298
01/04/19 01:47 AM
01/04/19 01:47 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,113 N.W. Florida
Fat_Mike
master
|
master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,113
N.W. Florida
|
Some made up machine cannot duplicate the airflow capacity of a running engine. Well, you're likely right about that, specifically. But a "made up machine" CAN produce airflow, measure the amount of airflow that it produces, and measure resistance put on it by (in this case) a muffler. You can, however, argue how that measured resistance affects an engine's performance. Actually, I take the last part back.
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#2601439
01/04/19 01:31 PM
01/04/19 01:31 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,403 Highland, MI.
Sunroofcuda
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,403
Highland, MI.
|
anyone try the MF = magna flow?
I run a single 2.5 in/out offset/center one on my 98 grand Cherokee 5.9
I liked it a lot and thought I would swap out the cheap FM knock offs. which do sound ok on my truck and are not loud but not the tune I like.
Magna Flows are cheaper knock-offs of Dynomax Ultra Flo welded - they used to be called "Race Magnum" series. They don't do ANY tuning at all as the exhaust passes through. To me, they sound FLAT, but get louder under WOT.
No Man With A Good Car Needs To Be Justified
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: gregok]
#2601461
01/04/19 02:01 PM
01/04/19 02:01 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,580 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,580
Motor City
|
I have always have at least one car with a pair of Flowmasters on it since around 1985. Mainly because they were always cheap. No seeing the actual flow data I may have to change them up to some Ultra Flows.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Neil]
#2601664
01/04/19 08:48 PM
01/04/19 08:48 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
|
Brother had a friend who had a Camaro with Flowmasters on it and the car picked up several tenths once he removed them. People buy those based on what they sound like. Nobody I'm aware of that has a dedicated race car uses those things. They are very popular with Mustang and Camaro guys for some reason.
Hooker Aero Chambers are good.
I don't like mufflers with packing material in them. They end up getting louder over time. Motorcycles come that way and you have to rebuild the mufflers every so often. Can't do that with a sealed car muffler.
I don't believe muffler flow bench numbers and I don't believe cylinder head flow bench numbers. Some made up machine cannot duplicate the airflow capacity of a running engine. so, what about tests on a car?http://www.pontiacstreetperformance.com/psp/exhaust.html
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2601690
01/04/19 09:46 PM
01/04/19 09:46 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,733 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
|
The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,733
Eagle, Idaho
|
Tests on a car, the same car, is as believable as it gets.
Best flowing muffler would be something crazy like a 5" race bullet. Does not mean that muffler is right for most applications, or would even make it a car run any better if it's just the wrong one to pick. People take the whole flow bench stuff too seriously. It's just a tool to measure change or differences between things, but it can't tell you what it will do on a specific engine, at a specific altitude, at a specific rpm range, ect. It's all about a combination of parts working together that you have to look at.
I can say the Aerochambers are good because my brother has them on a low 11 second car and it runs very close to the same with them off. So much so that it's not worth the effort to remove them. They are a baffled muffler that won't score high on a flow bench, but on a running car they do what they say they do.
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Neil]
#2601719
01/04/19 10:47 PM
01/04/19 10:47 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696
jersey
|
Tests on a car, the same car, is as believable as it gets.
Best flowing muffler would be something crazy like a 5" race bullet. Does not mean that muffler is right for most applications, or would even make it a car run any better if it's just the wrong one to pick. People take the whole flow bench stuff too seriously. It's just a tool to measure change or differences between things, but it can't tell you what it will do on a specific engine, at a specific altitude, at a specific rpm range, ect. It's all about a combination of parts working together that you have to look at.
I can say the Aerochambers are good because my brother has them on a low 11 second car and it runs very close to the same with them off. So much so that it's not worth the effort to remove them. They are a baffled muffler that won't score high on a flow bench, but on a running car they do what they say they do. Did you read the link?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: Spaceman Spiff]
#2601761
01/05/19 12:44 AM
01/05/19 12:44 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,733 Eagle, Idaho
Neil
The Doctor is in.
|
The Doctor is in.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,733
Eagle, Idaho
|
Nope, pressed send right before leaving work. Just finished reading it now.
Dynomax mufflers work well. Only thing I don't care for is the insulation inside that can break down over time. In an old car that isn't driven a lot this is a non issue.
Interesting how the Supertrapp does everything just as good, or better in the case of a flow bench reading, than the Dynomax, but ends up being one of the 3 loudest. I would never buy a Supertrapp muffler for an old car, but I do like the fact that they are serviceable and adjustable. They are very popular with dirt bike and ATV racers.
The Borlas flow bench within a hair of the Dynomax, but are a 'slower" muffler down the track.
Muffler companies don't seem to talk about decibel control as that's not as sexy as flow rate, or the type of patented aggressive sound they produce. If they came right out and said our mufflers are super quiet, most would think that would mean a loss in power.
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2602493
01/06/19 05:03 PM
01/06/19 05:03 PM
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 72 WI
Brewzer67
member
|
member
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 72
WI
|
Everytime I read one of these muffler threads I always wonder why no one recommends Borla's. They are just like the ultraflows but don't have the history of blowouts or other defects. They are a great flowing muffler, sound awesome, and last forever. Just wondering... Because Borlas are stupid expensive and I've never had any issue w/ the cheaper brands "blowing out". Not trying to bust any chops but I don't quite get this response as Magnaflows and Borla Pro XS's are both within a few dollars of each other at Jeg's and Summit. The XR-1's are quite a bit pricier, but that isn't what most guys would run anyways. I've strayed from Borla's a few times on some different projects but always wound up coming back to them as they fit all my needs. Great sound at idle, mellow enough when cruising, bark when getting on it, have minimal impact to my E.T., and last forever. I just switched back again after letting someone con me into getting Flowmasters and probably will never stray again. I guess this is why there are so many brands out there. Exhaust is very subjective for sure. :-)
|
|
|
Re: Which Flowmaster is the best application
[Re: gregok]
#2602609
01/06/19 09:41 PM
01/06/19 09:41 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271 MO, USA
Tom Hand
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 271
MO, USA
|
I'd like to point out that in our chart, when you see StraightLine Performance, those are Magnaflow mufflers.
Another very important point is that the mufflers we tested (those with chambers and "V"s inside them), were offset in and offset out or center out. The first jog the exhaust gas has to take to get into those mufflers really affects its flow. And it should as the exhaust gas pretty much hits a flat surface as it first enters into the muffler.
All the cars we tested them on acted the same way, performance dropped compared to straight through or center in mufflers. Center in versions of chambered mufflers work much better although the sound level did not change much. Hooker Aerochambers, when offset in (are made differently) flowed better and ran better than some others. We tested other mufflers but chose not to share them in this chart since we were doing mufflers that typically are used on street cars. At the time, very few cars used center in and center out rectangular or oval mufflers so we did not publish results.
We learned that overall, it was pretty simple: when the air can get in and out smoothly, the power level seemed to stay higher. When the mufflers had sound "absorbing" materials in them (more so than only stainless steel) they were quieter. So, combine a good perforated tube pattern, high flow potential, and good sound "absorbing" material and you get sound control, nice sound, and better performance. In other words, you get a muffler that truly muffles and ones that let the engine run well and the car perform at the strip. If you need more sound or roar or rumbling, it is often a tradeoff with power output but, in life, it's all a tradeoff anyway right? :):) Tom Hand
Last edited by Tom Hand; 01/07/19 03:20 PM. Reason: minor changes
|
|
|
|
|