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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25978
10/03/06 06:41 PM
10/03/06 06:41 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Jim: I'm no expert on this, but I've heard that painting on top of imperfections can actually amplify them. I could be wrong tho. Marq and Exit, what do you guys think?
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25979
10/03/06 06:58 PM
10/03/06 06:58 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
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Posts: 575
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Quote:
Jim: I'm no expert on this, but I've heard that painting on top of imperfections can actually amplify them. I could be wrong tho. Marq and Exit, what do you guys think?
This is where the patience factor comes in to the formula. The more time and care that you take to get the body prepped, the more superior the finished product.
The same holds true for each layer that you are coating on to the car. A bad layer is not going to magically disappear as you slap more coats of paint on. That is one of the reasons we pause between every second coat to do a little wet sanding. Just to make sure that mistakes don't build upon mistakes.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25980
10/03/06 07:03 PM
10/03/06 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
69chargeryeehaa
OP
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,220
toronto canada
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Quote:
Jim: I'm no expert on this, but I've heard that painting on top of imperfections can actually amplify them. I could be wrong tho. Marq and Exit, what do you guys think?
yes and no.
yes - to small really fine scratches from sanding will be "filled" by the paint in a few coats.
No - when we're talking about dents, deep scratches, ect.....painting them really makes them jump out, and then your like, OH MY GOD, look at that dent.!!!!  
One tip i can give you guys is when prepping a car, use your hands to "feel" the car, they will tell you more than your eyes. you must be at one with the car, feel the car, touch the car....gently, and you will understand.  
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
[Re: 69chargeryeehaa]
#25981
10/03/06 08:20 PM
10/03/06 08:20 PM
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Anonymous
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ok i picked up some random orbital buffer that i saw when i was getting some sandpaper, and it says it spins at 4k rpms, non adjustable i think, will this work for buffing? i was planning onprobably doing it by hand but i figured this would be better then nothing,and it was 20 bucks.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25982
10/03/06 10:44 PM
10/03/06 10:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
ok i picked up some random orbital buffer that i saw when i was getting some sandpaper, and it says it spins at 4k rpms, non adjustable i think, will this work for buffing? i was planning onprobably doing it by hand but i figured this would be better then nothing,and it was 20 bucks.
Is that 4K rpms or 4K opms?
Orbital speed is usually measured in opms and 4000 opm (orbits per minute) is fine for your paint.
Rotary speed is measured in rpms and 4000 rpm (revolutions per minute) will rub your paint straight off unless you know how to handle a rotary.
My orbital polisher will max out at 7000 opm, but the most I have used is 6000 opm. My rotary polisher maxes out at 3000 rpm but the most that I have ever (safely) used is 2000 rpm. Higher speeds are workable with a rotary but I don't have that level of experience yet.
Double check the speed ratings. If it really is 4000 rpm then using that polisher could undo a lot of your work to date.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25983
10/04/06 09:19 AM
10/04/06 09:19 AM
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Anonymous
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Rob--I took your advice and wet sanded yesterday after work. Those "particles" disappeared very quickly. I intend to put another coat on tonight, utilizing the China bristle brush for "tipping." Hopefully, that will work well, as expected. A couple more coats and I should be home free, probably done on Monday.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25984
10/04/06 10:09 AM
10/04/06 10:09 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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That sounds great, Jim. Keep going. I think I'm going to experiment with the brush when I do my XJ. Instead of spraying rustoleum in the door-jambs and such, I'll try using the brush to get the Brightside in there. I think that's where the bristles will make the biggest difference.
Your neighbors are going to look out their window on Monday and think: "What the h*ll happened to that old jeep?"
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25985
10/04/06 10:40 AM
10/04/06 10:40 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Rob--I took your advice and wet sanded yesterday after work. Those "particles" disappeared very quickly. I intend to put another coat on tonight, utilizing the China bristle brush for "tipping." Hopefully, that will work well, as expected. A couple more coats and I should be home free, probably done on Monday.
I have tried the $15 China brush technique and still get brush mark ridges. These are harder to sand out than orange peel, in my opinion.
Foam brush leaves the same tracking. I have found that using a dryer roller going in the opposite direction works better. The result is an even finish that has a better chance at self levelling than the brush strokes. The resulting peel can be sanded out more easily; without going deep into the last coats.
For me, (cheap perfectionist), I am now looking for an affordable gun and plan on shooting an exoxy primer, then use my remaining Blue Water Marine.
I am hoping I get a smoother and HARDER finish. 
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25986
10/04/06 01:47 PM
10/04/06 01:47 PM
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Anonymous
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It seems that almost everyone with soft paint problems is in California. I'm wondering if that is the issue? Maybe a different formulation for the paint?
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25987
10/04/06 03:19 PM
10/04/06 03:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
It seems that almost everyone with soft paint problems is in California. I'm wondering if that is the issue? Maybe a different formulation for the paint?
According to rustoleum, there's no difference if we buy quarts. In gallons are where VOCs come into play, and we are restricted somewhat, but I think VOC has more to do with solvents that affect application, not the final product.
There are also probably multiple definitions of "rock hard", and some have said that it is hard, but they can slice it with their nail (leaving a dent in it). That's what I get, but no I cannot scrape the paint off with my fingernail.
The gloss on brightside is so nice compared to rustoleum that I don't think I'd use Rustoleum except on parts where shine isn't necessarily important like door jambs or engine bay.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
[Re: kenzo42]
#25989
10/05/06 04:26 AM
10/05/06 04:26 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
Canada
Marq
mopar addict
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mopar addict
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 575
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Quote:
Exit or Marq, would you say Brightside is nearly comparable to a factory paint job in terms or gloss? (assuming excellent body work/polish/paint technique?)
Thanks.
Because Brightside is a polyurathane, it would tend to take the appearance of a clear coat paint job. So yes... it can achieve results that are better than the 'standard issue' factory paint job. As previously noted in this thread, take some time to go to a Ford, Chrysler or GM new car dealership and give a good and critical stare at the paint on the new cars. You will probably be surprised that the reality on the car lots is less perfect than we imagine or believe you would find on a new car paint job. This is especially true with the orange peel effect that you will see in the new car paint factory paint jobs.
But on the topic of polyurathane.. Take a look at the MAACO web site for the four types of paint jobs they offer :
http://www.maaco.com/paint.aspx
What you will notice is that the 'el cheapo' Ambassador MAACO paint job is the enamel
The next 'better' MAACO paint job is the 'Presidential' which is a catalyzed or hardened enamel
The next 'better MAACO paint job is the 'Supreme' which is a single stage polyurathane. Brightside is a single stage polyurathane.
And their 'top of the line' ( errrm.. most expensive ) is the 'Signature' which is a base coat/clear coat polyurathane.
So I think the Brightside can achieve an equal result to the MAACO 'Supreme' paint job - and it may even be close to their 'Signature' paint job for overall gloss and shine.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
[Re: kenzo42]
#25990
10/05/06 07:14 AM
10/05/06 07:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
Are you guys using bondo and painting over it, w/ NO primer? If so, how does the surface appear?
Can bondo bond to existing sanded down factory paint that's in good condition? Or does it need epoxy sealer first?
Exit or Marq, would you say Brightside is nearly comparable to a factory paint job in terms or gloss? (assuming excellent body work/polish/paint technique?)
Thanks.
Re the bondo, I have the same question, and I'm finding out now. I'm going to repaint the whole car with brightside, and there was one dent that needed some fixing. In the past, I've bondod right over rustoleum after a bit of scuffing, and so far, so good.
This time, I scuffed the area with 80 grit, which took it down to the safety red and a bit beyond, then spread the bondo. When the dent is fixed, I'm going to use an industrial strength rattlecan primer, then wetsand the primer smooth, then I think I'll be ready to paint. In the past when I've painted with rustoleum right over the bondo, the bondo has always soaked in a few coats so was much slower to achieve coverage there, than on unbondoed areas. I am thinking that primering it will put a hard layer that the paint can stick to, rather than the paint being absorbed into the bondo. I should have the dent fixed and primered tonight.
And re the gloss, yes I would compare it to a standard car paint. The gloss with rustoleum was something I had to LOOK for at the right angle, but the gloss with brightside really jumps out at you. It's a huge difference, and easily seems worth the additional money over rustoleum. It should also be a time saver since fewer coats are needed.
Last edited by Exit1965; 10/05/06 07:16 AM.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
[Re: Exit1965]
#25991
10/05/06 09:50 PM
10/05/06 09:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I'm definitely going to paint my Jeep next spring when the weather warms up again. I'm in north-west Montana, and the weather is a little too unpredictable this time of year. We're getting down to freezing at night.
I'm going to go with a primer coat of Interlux Pre-Kote, wetsanded, followed by 6 or 7 coats of Brightside off-white, wetsanded between each coat. Total cost of materials should be less than $150, which is still pretty cheap.
I'd like to use a roller and brush for the entire vehicle, but I might have to buy a little detail gun for the door jambs.
The thing that I'm least confident about is the final wetsanding, rubbing out, and polishing. I've had bad luck with that in the past, and I'd hate to ruin that beautiful gloss. Does anybody know of a website with lots of specific info on rubbing out a paint job?
Also, I think I read a while back that Brightside white tends to yellow a bit in the sun. Has anybody heard that?
Any other advice for this project? I want it to look good and last a long time.
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
#25992
10/05/06 11:51 PM
10/05/06 11:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
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I've heard that alkyd enamels can yellow if NOT in sunlight, like they need some UV light on them or they'll yellow. Awhile back I called Rustoleum, and they said "no, it wouldn't". I have read about a person who used Glidden alkyd enamel in white, and it yellowed when applied indoors. Washing machines and dryers come to mind, these are probably painted with an oil based enamel (cheap, durable) and they do not yellow although it's possible there is some blue in there that keeps the yellow away. With respect to brightside, since boats are outside, maybe the phenomenon of yellowing is not common. My car is going to be in the garage most of it's life, so I expect mine would yellow if anything since there is some alkyd enamel in the brightside. The hatteras white I'm using is already slightly yellow, so it may be even more prone to yellowing. If it does yellow in a few years, I can always drop another $75 and paint it gray or something.  All in all, I'm not sure if it will or will not yellow, but I do know the possible yellowing is from lack of sun light, not too much..
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Re: Paint Type Summary Request
[Re: Exit1965]
#25993
10/06/06 09:51 AM
10/06/06 09:51 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Exit: Thanks for the response ... makes sense.
The only other thing I'm worried about is the final coat. I'm not sure I can polish it well enough to get the gloss back. Anybody else here have experience polishing Brightside?
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Buying Interlux Brightside in Canada?
[Re: Marq]
#25995
10/06/06 11:58 PM
10/06/06 11:58 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Any Canadians know where to buy Interlux Brightside paint? Seeing that everyone is having more glossy results using brightside, I thought I would change over to this method and return my tremclad to home depot.
I found some on Ebay, but I don't think they will ship to Canada.
Thanks.
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Re: Profesional Results?
[Re: 79asspin]
#25996
10/07/06 02:00 AM
10/07/06 02:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 37
venice, ca
admactanium
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member
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Posts: 37
venice, ca
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Quote:
If you look far enough back in the thread, one person with a lot of detailing experience did do a test on a motorcycle gas tank. He posted a few pics that showed results every bit as good as I would expect from a very good body shop, and much better than the run-of-the-mill body shop.
I was going to say the same thing. Beautiful high gloss orange.
hi guys. that was me. i've been meaning to get back to that but i've been travelling and been lazy. i do need to finish up a gas tank though. so if i'm not out of town next week i'm going to try to finish it up and give it a nice shine. plus, i got a nice new camera.
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Re: Buying Interlux Brightside in Canada?
#25997
10/07/06 02:44 AM
10/07/06 02:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
Exit1965
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,379
Rancho Cordova, CA
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Quote:
Any Canadians know where to buy Interlux Brightside paint? Seeing that everyone is having more glossy results using brightside, I thought I would change over to this method and return my tremclad to home depot.
I found some on Ebay, but I don't think they will ship to Canada.
Thanks.
Try West Marine.
http://westmarine.geoserve.com/DLRWMarine/Canada.htm
That's where I got my brightside, but in Sacramento. And they even took back an opened can because I thought the color wasn't right (and it wasn't!). With tax, I paid about $34 USD out the door. When you think about shipping costs, it's probably not much more than buying it online and paying $25 a quart + shipping. Getting it fast and being able to return it is worth the extra money , if you have a West Marine around.
If you don't have one around, call any boating place and they can either order it or tell you where you can get it in town.
In my Dart painting news, I've just about fixed that body line error that I saw after painting. I am planning on shooting the brightside through my HVLP gun. One guy I talked to at a marine place said it sprayed fine, and the gloss was great, and he said use two thin coats or it'll run. So that's the plan, and I'm thinking I'll give the first coat a good week to dry, then wetsand, then do the final coat. Spraying it will be much faster than rolling, and should be less stressful even though rolling isn't all that bad.
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