Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: phantomx]
#259903
03/20/09 10:05 PM
03/20/09 10:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826 las vegas
70AARcuda
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master
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Posts: 9,826
las vegas
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do the 360...cheaper and more performance.
you can not compare stock engines from 40 yrs ago, with two engines being totally rebuilt today..
Tony
70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: cdp]
#259905
03/21/09 02:48 PM
03/21/09 02:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Mopar Action got 425 HP out of a 360/380 crate motor. When you rebuild it, you might think about sticking very close to what a crate motor spec. is....maybe add a bit more cam.
all the 380HP crate is is a stock truck motor with the MP .525" lift springs, a MP 230@.050 or so, 51" lift roller cam, and an M1 single plane manifold.
if it were me, I'd use the mag 360. if you plan on rebuilding, use some KB pistons at 0 deck, .039" gaskets. I'd probably use the crate motor cam and an eddie RPM intake. get the heads redone with a good 5 angle valvejob, clean up the bowls a bit, and open the pushrod pinch as much as you feel comfortable, and either use the MP springs with 2.2L/2.5L retainers, or if you can get enough installed height, GM 3100 springs and retainers, or hughes 1110 springs & hughes retainers. that right there is probably a 420+ HP motor.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!*** 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
#259907
03/21/09 03:22 PM
03/21/09 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Stock the 360 makes more power than a stock 340.
Really i don't recall the 360 ever being rated at 275 h.p. and anyone that knows and i have owned more then a few that rating is low its more like 300 or more..i'll put a stock 340 up against a stock 360 any day of the week,you might have more torque down low but by mid track i'll be blowing right by ya'!!!
that's beacuse it's not at the back of the block donkey, a 95 360 is rated at the rear wheel. My 95 5.2 was rated 230 form the factory rear wheel. Bring your stock 340 to me and I'll run my stock 5.2 Dakota and give you a run for your money.
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#259909
03/21/09 03:48 PM
03/21/09 03:48 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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that's beacuse it's not at the back of the block donkey, a 95 360 is rated at the rear wheel. My 95 5.2 was rated 230 form the factory rear wheel. Bring your stock 340 to me and I'll run my stock 5.2 Dakota and give you a run for your money.
Well if my 340 were still stock i'd take you up on that..and giving a 340 a run for its money and beating one are 2 different things..
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
#259910
03/21/09 03:53 PM
03/21/09 03:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
that's beacuse it's not at the back of the block donkey, a 95 360 is rated at the rear wheel. My 95 5.2 was rated 230 form the factory rear wheel. Bring your stock 340 to me and I'll run my stock 5.2 Dakota and give you a run for your money.
Well if my 340 were still stock i'd take you up on that..and giving a 340 a run for its money and beating one are 2 different things..
Just saying my 5.2 runs pretty good. I wish it had an extra 42 cubes....
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: 69L78Nova]
#259912
03/21/09 05:11 PM
03/21/09 05:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,423 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
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Kalispell Mt.
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The 73 340 with higher compression than the 74 360 made LESS HP than the 74 360 even though both motors had the same heads, same intake, same cam and same carb. They were rated the same way those 2 years and were both offered in the same cars. The 360 made 5 more hp and 30LBS more tq. I beleive 74 was also the same year the 360 got cats so there is another hit on the 360 and it still made more power. That is about as close a comparison as you can get and any one who has driven a stock 73 340 car and a stock 74 360 car knows the 360 would eat it's luinch any day of the week. All things being equal the 360 will whoop the 340.
The 340 simply got a good reputation back in the day and it always will because they were bad little motors but you also got to remember the 360 was never offered in a car as light as a 68 cuda or dart.
If you took an e-58 360 and gave it 10.5 compression pistons and the same good flowing 68 340 ex manifolds it would make quite a bit more HP than a 68 340. It is just plane a matter of physics and good common sense, and we all know .040 bore will not make near the differance as .27 stroke increase, that "biger bore" only gives you .020 more clearance from the valve to the cylinder. People who think equally built 340s are faster than an equally built 360 are totally smokeing crack or something unless you are talking bone stock motors and even then there are short-comeings of the 340. Even in stroker motors you are only talking 8 whoppin inches for a block that will cost you about $600 more.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: HotRodDave]
#259913
03/21/09 05:51 PM
03/21/09 05:51 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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340s rule 360's drool....
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: cdp]
#259914
03/21/09 07:20 PM
03/21/09 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,623 Millinocket, Maine
JonC
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Posts: 3,623
Millinocket, Maine
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Quote:
Use the 360. Cheaper, easier to build. Roller motor, etc, etc,. A 360 can make just as much horse power as a 340. The new 10:1 coated pistons/rings are super cheap. Stroker kits available everywhere for more cubes.
Sell the 340 or keep it for a true 340-Car.
If his Demon is basically a clone, then thats another reason to build the 360.
In my opinion, the 340 has too much value to be in a clone car.
Why would a 360 be cheaper and easier to build????? I guess I don't understand that.
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: DPelletier]
#259916
03/21/09 08:40 PM
03/21/09 08:40 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
340s rule 360's drool....
We're all glad you're back!
Dave
Why thank you...Dave
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
#259917
03/21/09 09:03 PM
03/21/09 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
340s rule 360's drool....
kinda like those guys that say a 383 will hang w/ a 440....
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: HotRodDave]
#259919
03/21/09 09:58 PM
03/21/09 09:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822 Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
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Quote:
I beleive 74 was also the same year the 360 got cats so there is another hit on the 360 and it still made more power.
It was 1976 when catalytic converters reared their ugly heads. I agree with everything else you said though. Save the 340 for a restorer who has to have it right. 360 parts are much cheaper, better power output and one thing no one has mentioned, much younger like I wish I was. Craig
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: RAUPLEMINZE454]
#259920
03/21/09 10:16 PM
03/21/09 10:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,052 Madera, CA.
MowP4rsn
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Quote:
What do you guys think would be a good price for the 360 without transmission or harness? He was asking $500 for everything.
Buy it now! Do NOT pass "GO"
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Re: 1970 340 vs. 1995 360
[Re: MowP4rsn]
#259921
03/21/09 10:55 PM
03/21/09 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,943 Melbourne.....Oz-land
Moparmal
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Melbourne.....Oz-land
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340 vs 360 - The 360 has a better rod to stroke ratio than the 340 for building HP, and it will deliver a higher piston speed at lower revs than a 340 which also helps(and the 360 has this over not only the 340, but also the 273 and 318) . Why is it better? - Given the formula for power = revs x torque divided by 5252, and that torque is the result of an explosion on top of the piston pushing down on the rod which pushes against the stroke(longer stroke = longer lever) it would appear that a factory stroke of 3.58in versus 3.31 will result in a greater amount of torque at all revs.
Thus - this equals more average torque, which equals more average horse power..across the rev range.So again it would seem that given the same heads cam and intake that the 340 is "owned" by the better designed 360. In its favour the 340 has bore, but we're not talking much, its like 40 thou ...........which given the area increase it offers its still not enough to offset the gains of the extra stroke of the 360. So it appears the 340 isnt as good as a 360, But wait theres more!! - The ability of the 360 to generate greater torque everywhere is the reason its a better motor for street cars and drag cars if the required rpm is less than 7500 - (and no, torque is not reserved for low down and hp for high up, one is a measure of a direct quantity, one is a derived number from a formula - although with money more is possible but 7500 stays in the realm of factory cranks and rods).. ...... thats not to say that a 340 can't go hard, its just that a 360 can go(and does) go harder when fitted with the same heads cam and intake. As for the weight , the 360 pistons on average depending on brand are typically lighter than 340 pistons(due to bore size, but the extra comression height is typicaly the main reason) . If you weigh both blocks you get about the same number(give or take for corrosion and casting, and we are talking factory, not race blocks), yes the 360 crank is heavier, but the extra mass we're mainly concerned with is along the crank center line so it is a minimal. So lets look at the old argument - "but 340s love to rev" In reality , what we are seeing is the function of the rod/stroke ratio for a 340 - the engine MUST rev harder to achieve the same HP as the 360, thus both engines are the logical end product of functional design - the 340 was built to make its HP at high revs becuase thats what the engineers knew it would have to do with its rod/stroke and bore. Thus the forged crank and large valve heads.The 360 is a torque monster by virtue of its capacity and stroke - but its rod/stroke makes this torque right through the range - and ends up making more power for the same revolutions as a 340. So the more oversqre 340 shows all the characteristics one would expect - it spins up quickly and appears to make power at higher revs - Trouble is, its making less power than the 360 below this "magical point" - and you're losing the race in the process! LOL!! Lastly , the more oversquare design of the 340 enhances its durability at high revs, but as we've discussed, we're talking street engines so this advantage is negligible at 6500 rpm.--------Anyhoo, back to your question - No substitute for cubes, so the 360 over the 340 will always be a more practical option for street duty.....Torque rules in the street. If you don't own either - buy a 360.
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