1970 Charger Full Build
#2568430
10/23/18 03:45 PM
10/23/18 03:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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Critique my build Engine: 440 source 500" stroker kit (.030 or .040 over depending on whats needed with the current condition) Trick Flow 240 heads (possibly cc heads from 78 to 84, to lower compression to around 10.5) Holley SD intake Holley 850? street avenger Cam with 240-245@.050 (the average of suggestions between 230-250) Hedman ceramic coated headers 1 3/4" (if I can find a pair of 1 7/8" that fits with the fast ratio pitman arms ill get it) 3" exhaust with flowmaster super 44's Most likely Harland Sharp rocker arms Transmission: SST perfect fit kit magnum 6 speed, close ratio, billet flywheel, 1350 yoke Driveshaft: Denny's HD 3 or 3.5 in depending on his suggestion Rear end: Moser Dana 60 with mark williams billet main caps, 35 spline truetrac, 1350 yoke, 3.73, tapered roller bearing, wilwood 12.19 parking brake kit, aluminum cover (would 1/2"x20x2" screw in studs work with factory style wheels?) Suspension: Rear: XHD springs with caltracs Bilstein shocks New shackles and bushings Front: PST Adjustable strut rods Bilstein shocks LCA rebuild and stiffen Polygraphite PST super front end kit MP .96 torsion bars Wilwood 12.19 brakes Chassis: Stiffen all chassis welds and k member (especially the steering box mount) US Car Tool subframe connectors and torque boxes
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: tboomer]
#2568441
10/23/18 04:01 PM
10/23/18 04:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289 Lowes
steve660
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 289
Lowes
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How many threads are you going to start on this build?? Please stick to a couple...This is getting out of hand.. You have 7 threads on the first 2 pages here.. FINALLY.......THANK YOU
PSO headed 632 from MM. Cracked cylinder, loose valve seats, low oil pressure, low cylinder pressure. ..... Now its a door stop....
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: krautrock]
#2568497
10/23/18 05:24 PM
10/23/18 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,545
So. Burlington, Vt.
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the build looks great. build it up and let us know how it works!! Yeh.... that.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568549
10/23/18 07:18 PM
10/23/18 07:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
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Trick Flow 240 heads (possibly cc heads from 78 to 84, to lower compression to around 10.5) Can you do this yourself? Very complex work, should be done with a flow bench
Pistons: dome shape, static CR, valve reliefs, quench clearance?
Cam with 240-245@.050 That reduces total choices to 50 LSA? Intake/exhaust bias? Installed ICL?
the average of suggestions between 230-250 Why?
Pushrods?
Most likely Harland Sharp rocker arms Intake ratio? Exhaust ratio?
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568552
10/23/18 07:42 PM
10/23/18 07:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,301 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,301
West Coast, USA
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I saw some of the bench racing talk about the engine in previous posts, and I am curious if you even own the car yet? Either way, worrying about how all these specific parts will work together is way overthinking it not to mention expensive, very expensive for a daily driver.
Having a plan is a good thing, but having a running driving car that you can thoughtfully upgrade over time is an even better plan. I would say it helps you avoid expensive mistakes, but I have far too many spare parts that I've accumulated over the years to say that. Hope you are on the right track to accomplish your dreams.
Are you going to build this all at once or upgrade it over time?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568572
10/23/18 08:23 PM
10/23/18 08:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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My critique:
Don't mess with the cc of the heads. Get the right pistons that give you the desired compression ratio with the stock 78cc head. Hopefully you've been in touch with an engine builder to handle the machine work and assembly.
Stay right around 240@050 on the cam and I recommend hydraulic roller, and yes Harland sharp rockers are very good.
TTI 1 7/8 headers and exhaust instead of hedman. TTI headers and exhaust fit great and are very good quality. They also sell stock replica exhaust tips in 3" stainless.
This seems like a build that would run fuel injection, but carb works good too. Personally, I'd call quick fuel for a carb, but 850 street avenger should be fine.
Everything else seems good. I know nothing about that trans, but hope it can handle all that torque.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: TonyS451]
#2568588
10/23/18 08:50 PM
10/23/18 08:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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My critique:
Don't mess with the cc of the heads. Get the right pistons that give you the desired compression ratio with the stock 78cc head. Hopefully you've been in touch with an engine builder to handle the machine work and assembly.
Stay right around 240@050 on the cam and I recommend hydraulic roller, and yes Harland sharp rockers are very good.
TTI 1 7/8 headers and exhaust instead of hedman. TTI headers and exhaust fit great and are very good quality. They also sell stock replica exhaust tips in 3" stainless.
This seems like a build that would run fuel injection, but carb works good too. Personally, I'd call quick fuel for a carb, but 850 street avenger should be fine.
Everything else seems good. I know nothing about that trans, but hope it can handle all that torque.
Thank you, TTI headers have alot more clearance than most correct? And the carb would just be overall better for the street, while being still more than good enough for the strip (i just dont know if the size is good). And that transmission is rated for 700 lb-ft of torque, plus theres a cryogenic treatment option that adds 200 lb-ft (if im correct its somewhere around there)
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: jbc426]
#2568590
10/23/18 08:51 PM
10/23/18 08:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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I saw some of the bench racing talk about the engine in previous posts, and I am curious if you even own the car yet? Either way, worrying about how all these specific parts will work together is way overthinking it not to mention expensive, very expensive for a daily driver.
Having a plan is a good thing, but having a running driving car that you can thoughtfully upgrade over time is an even better plan. I would say it helps you avoid expensive mistakes, but I have far too many spare parts that I've accumulated over the years to say that. Hope you are on the right track to accomplish your dreams.
Are you going to build this all at once or upgrade it over time?
Yes i do own the car. With a stock 440. And i will be doing suspension, steering, and braks, while HP engines will build the engine, and im going to have the rest of the driveline professionally installed (most likely by Mark Dudley)
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: polyspheric]
#2568600
10/23/18 08:58 PM
10/23/18 08:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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Trick Flow 240 heads (possibly cc heads from 78 to 84, to lower compression to around 10.5) Can you do this yourself? Very complex work, should be done with a flow bench
Pistons: dome shape, static CR, valve reliefs, quench clearance?
Cam with 240-245@.050 That reduces total choices to 50 LSA? Intake/exhaust bias? Installed ICL?
the average of suggestions between 230-250 Why?
Pushrods?
Most likely Harland Sharp rocker arms Intake ratio? Exhaust ratio? Oh no id have the engine shop cc the heads if i had to do that. Theyre flat tops with valve reliefs, from the 440 source stroker kit. The kit says around 11.5 (depending on overbore with 78 cc heads) which makes me worried about a really hot day causing problems on 93 octane (maybe not to 84 but just enough to be at or under 11). The pistons are also .018 in the hole. Im trying to get quench anywhere between .035-.039, im thinking around .038 to be specific. Im thinking lsa around 110 installed 4 degrees advanced to be more street friendly, but looks like those options are limited. I have found plenty of 109 and 108 lsa cams with that duration. And the suggestionsive gotten ranged from 230-250, so im thinkin if i go in the middle ill be good, of course ill talk to the Mr. Page while the motor is there. Also thinking more exhaust on the cam (that is more street friendly, correct?) Pushrods should be stock ball/cup style but i dont know where i should get them from. 1.5 rocker arms. Harland sharp isnt a guarantee, i just know theyre good.
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568603
10/23/18 09:03 PM
10/23/18 09:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296
Chicago, IL
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My critique:
Don't mess with the cc of the heads. Get the right pistons that give you the desired compression ratio with the stock 78cc head. Hopefully you've been in touch with an engine builder to handle the machine work and assembly.
Stay right around 240@050 on the cam and I recommend hydraulic roller, and yes Harland sharp rockers are very good.
TTI 1 7/8 headers and exhaust instead of hedman. TTI headers and exhaust fit great and are very good quality. They also sell stock replica exhaust tips in 3" stainless.
This seems like a build that would run fuel injection, but carb works good too. Personally, I'd call quick fuel for a carb, but 850 street avenger should be fine.
Everything else seems good. I know nothing about that trans, but hope it can handle all that torque.
Thank you, TTI headers have alot more clearance than most correct? And the carb would just be overall better for the street, while being still more than good enough for the strip (i just dont know if the size is good). And that transmission is rated for 700 lb-ft of torque, plus theres a cryogenic treatment option that adds 200 lb-ft (if im correct its somewhere around there) TTI headers fit great and have the best clearance of any shelf header. The carb is easier to bolt on and less expensive, but FI should be better on the street. The carb may or may not be better at the track. If you stay with a carb, I think a 950 is where you need to be.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: TonyS451]
#2568646
10/23/18 10:15 PM
10/23/18 10:15 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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My critique:
Don't mess with the cc of the heads. Get the right pistons that give you the desired compression ratio with the stock 78cc head. Hopefully you've been in touch with an engine builder to handle the machine work and assembly.
Stay right around 240@050 on the cam and I recommend hydraulic roller, and yes Harland sharp rockers are very good.
TTI 1 7/8 headers and exhaust instead of hedman. TTI headers and exhaust fit great and are very good quality. They also sell stock replica exhaust tips in 3" stainless.
This seems like a build that would run fuel injection, but carb works good too. Personally, I'd call quick fuel for a carb, but 850 street avenger should be fine.
Everything else seems good. I know nothing about that trans, but hope it can handle all that torque.
Thank you, TTI headers have alot more clearance than most correct? And the carb would just be overall better for the street, while being still more than good enough for the strip (i just dont know if the size is good). And that transmission is rated for 700 lb-ft of torque, plus theres a cryogenic treatment option that adds 200 lb-ft (if im correct its somewhere around there) TTI headers fit great and have the best clearance of any shelf header. The carb is easier to bolt on and less expensive, but FI should be better on the street. The carb may or may not be better at the track. If you stay with a carb, I think a 950 is where you need to be. Oh yes, of course FI would be better overall, i just dont know if i want to go that route, sorry i thought you were referring to the vacuum secondary vs doube pumper part, my bad. And 950? ok thank you i guess ill just ask my engine builder when its all built without the carb just in case too.
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568648
10/23/18 10:26 PM
10/23/18 10:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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What are you using for a clutch? You can cryo all the parts you want, but if the clutch is a parts killer it will kill the gear box no matter what it's rated at.
As for the compression ratio and the cam, you need to get in the phone with a cam company where you can actually talk to someone who isn't a minimum wage catalog parts finder. You need to talk to someone who actually understands cams.
Then you order the cam. If the cam is correct, I wouldn't worry about 11:1 on pump gas. I run 11:1 on pump gas, but I didn't buy a cam of the shelf, or by web suggestions.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 1970 Charger Full Build
[Re: madscientist]
#2568661
10/23/18 10:53 PM
10/23/18 10:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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What are you using for a clutch? You can cryo all the parts you want, but if the clutch is a parts killer it will kill the gear box no matter what it's rated at.
As for the compression ratio and the cam, you need to get in the phone with a cam company where you can actually talk to someone who isn't a minimum wage catalog parts finder. You need to talk to someone who actually understands cams.
Then you order the cam. If the cam is correct, I wouldn't worry about 11:1 on pump gas. I run 11:1 on pump gas, but I didn't buy a cam of the shelf, or by web suggestions. Oh of course i will talk to a cam company, i just need some ideas so i dont have to have them teach me everything over the phone hahah. 11:1 seems fine to me, but how would 11.5:1 be on 93 with a cam in the spec range that has been discussed. And as for the clutch it is SST’s clutch (and flywheel), heres everything they sent me in the quick quote, notice the last part about the metallic series.
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