Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566459
10/19/18 01:46 PM
10/19/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317
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Nick,
You are filling in the blanks for the variables that affect your specific issue.
Like this...
You want 550hp You don't want to spin the motor past 6000
Those two specifics dictate a cubic inch requirement that is likely higher than 440...likely.
Now you add in the requirement that it be a stump puller (my words) off idle
Now your REALLY making things difficult, if not impossible.
Does that make sense? But strokers greatly increase low end torque correct? So its very difficult to have a good street driving 550 hp 440? I drive and test carbs weekly on my stroker 470 which makes around 700 lets say based on my recent 1/8th mile et's and mph. A blast to drive but I've been doing this since the late 80's and if you are not pointed in the right direction when you stab it, things can go REALLY wrong..........Based on your questions I'd say if you had a 450-475 hp 440, you'd be ecstatic...........
Last edited by Thumperdart; 10/19/18 01:47 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2566562
10/19/18 04:54 PM
10/19/18 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
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This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid Hyd roller. Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512. I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now. Heh heh heh........ You’ve just discovered the big flaw that’s in many engine building simulation software programs. I built a 446 and a 493 that were very very similar to each other besides the displacement. On several engine sims the 446 showed higher output. On the real dyno the 493 was clearly better...... and not by a small amount either.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566565
10/19/18 04:56 PM
10/19/18 04:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,214 Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
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I Live Here
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Yep, you don’t learn. Still hung up on same stuff. You might try a book. It won’t talk back when you reject it. Show me how im hung up. All you were able to do is say i am not an engine builder. Ah yes, a polemic and soft pedal troll joined the board to ask us questions, then tell us the answers. I’m not the only one to notice, just not as nice as others about it. We can dunk your head under the water, still you won’t drink. It appeared when you first arrived on the scene you might put together a nice build for everyone to follow. Now it’s painfully clear you won’t get beyond “telling us how it is.” Reminds me if a kid a few years back that asked about an MP cam. He got his info, then lit into 20+ people about how they were messing up by not running his choice of cams. After doing exactly what you are right here. Good luck with your build, you’re gonna need it.
I want my fair share
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566579
10/19/18 05:25 PM
10/19/18 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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Ah, more entertainment!
Your first build is fine, I still say do that + change the intake and have fun.
Cam operating range is marketing 101.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2566580
10/19/18 05:30 PM
10/19/18 05:30 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861 Pattison Texas
CSK
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,861
Pattison Texas
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This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid Hyd roller. Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512. I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now. Heh heh heh........ You’ve just discovered the big flaw that’s in many engine building simulation software programs. I built a 446 and a 493 that were very very similar to each other besides the displacement. On several engine sims the 446 showed higher output. On the real dyno the 493 was clearly better...... and not by a small amount either. Yep I have found the same as you on my old dyno, was trying to show the rpm difference ,same cam & more cid. & as you know it is just a Sim.:)
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566585
10/19/18 05:35 PM
10/19/18 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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On the other hand if you wanna be hardcore about it, here's what we used to work with. Decide how fast you want to go and install the appropriate combination of parts. Poof. Done. Really you could just do one of these.
People complained back then (people will always complain) but there are times I could swear we were more......productive....not the right word but close as I can get right now.
Build a combo that sounds cool and go out there and flog it, work with it.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2566591
10/19/18 05:56 PM
10/19/18 05:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,296 Chicago, IL
TonyS451
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master
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Chicago, IL
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On the other hand if you wanna be hardcore about it, here's what we used to work with. Decide how fast you want to go and install the appropriate combination of parts. Poof. Done. Really you could just do one of these.
People complained back then (people will always complain) but there are times I could swear we were more......productive....not the right word but close as I can get right now.
Build a combo that sounds cool and go out there and flog it, work with it. Zippy, I remember that guide! I like how the combos were all about how fast you wanted to run at the track. Before all the dyno racing began, it was all about manning up and running down the 1/4. Those were some good times. I went for the 509 cam combo and man I really thought I was hardcore! haha Now we have so many options by comparison, its nuts.
2 kids and a dog
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566609
10/19/18 07:22 PM
10/19/18 07:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!
13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2566624
10/19/18 08:06 PM
10/19/18 08:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,314 Prospect, PA
BSB67
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master
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Prospect, PA
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Cam operating range is marketing 101.
Zippy, I think you led the OP to figure out the answer to his question in the other thread regarding operating ranges.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2566641
10/19/18 08:54 PM
10/19/18 08:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,680 Wichita
GY3
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master
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Wichita
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10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!
13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery. Yep, something to be said for a simple ring and bearing 440 rebuild with cam, intake and headers. The bang for buck is maximized!
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: BSB67]
#2566666
10/19/18 09:37 PM
10/19/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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Cam operating range is marketing 101.
Zippy, I think you led the OP to figure out the answer to his question in the other thread regarding operating ranges. I sure hope so, B. I'm trying to be friendly and honest to Nick. I feel sorry for anyone coming up in "the information age" because the assumption is... manufacturer information is always correct. Big fan of your Charger and love what you've done with it.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566676
10/19/18 09:50 PM
10/19/18 09:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,696 jersey
Spaceman Spiff
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master
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jersey
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And yes, I think if you are after a true 550hp at the wheels below 6000rpm, you will need a stroked motor. (Unless you go with a power adder of course) And no, sorry not 550 at the wheels (i wish). At the crank. Serious questions here. 1. WHY 550hp? why not 525? 600? 2. What is that fastest vehicle you have ever driven?
526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: ZIPPY]
#2566687
10/19/18 10:10 PM
10/19/18 10:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
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Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/19/18 10:30 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#2566698
10/19/18 10:33 PM
10/19/18 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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YOU Cab created a MONSTER and I'm very happy with that, neighbors, not so much............ I drove a guys turbo Probe and swore it was at LEAST a 13 flat car..........NO where close......We all started somewhere............
Last edited by Thumperdart; 10/19/18 10:34 PM.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566723
10/20/18 12:03 AM
10/20/18 12:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 298 mt. pleasant, PA
Diplomat440
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 298
mt. pleasant, PA
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To answer your question, no, you shouldnt have to rev the engine excessively or slip the clutch or anything like that pulling out with a 2500-6200 operating range cam. I run a .528 solid cam in my stout 440, four speed,3.31 gear daily driver and it has a similar rpm range i believe. Great street manners, easy driving in rush hour stop and go traffic. Couldn't be happier with it.
Best thing i can suggest, is to use the google custom search bar at the top of the screen and do alot of searching and reading. That's what i did, and these guys knowledge and experience didn't steer me wrong.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566744
10/20/18 01:02 AM
10/20/18 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,846 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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I Live Here
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Posts: 17,846
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Does a 2500-6200 cam require more throt..... Sorry to say it looks like B may have been incorrect, the pointers didn't help. I really tried Books have a big advantage here in that they give focus.... The reader gets input from only one expert, and in only one style of communication. Here you can sometimes get a consensus, but folks seldom totally agree 100% on every little detail. Instead of 27 threads with the same stuff I'd kindly suggest read up first and ask questions later.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 65Fury440]
#2566810
10/20/18 04:06 AM
10/20/18 04:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,195
Bend,OR USA
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Not sure if anywhere in this mess it was communicated that a 500 CI stroker will eat duration. The cam that might have a 3400- 6500 operating range in a 440, might drop maybe by 1000rpm in a 500 CI. When you have big cubes,you will have more torque than you need. You also will get a lot more need for good traction and unbreakable drive train parts Trust me on this, been there, done that
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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