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Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: RapidRobert] #2519146
07/08/18 01:11 PM
07/08/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,968
Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
master
mymcodebee  Offline OP
master

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Will be very happy if it’s a simple adjustment! I’ll keep you posted

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? Update [Re: mymcodebee] #2519371
07/09/18 12:52 AM
07/09/18 12:52 AM
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Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
master
mymcodebee  Offline OP
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Measured the distance between the push rod and master. It was opposite of what I was hoping.. It’s actually .030 heavy..

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? Update [Re: mymcodebee] #2519383
07/09/18 01:23 AM
07/09/18 01:23 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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I would adj it so there is .020" clearance & an engine 5/16 pushrod makes a good measureing tool to stick into the MC piston "thimble" to get it dead on.


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: mymcodebee] #2519417
07/09/18 05:52 AM
07/09/18 05:52 AM
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Phila
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PhillyRag Offline
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Phila
Originally Posted By mymcodebee
Checked on the lift when bled. All four tires were locked up when brake depressed. Once we start car pedal pushes to the floor and you can here air loudly under the dash when pedal is depressed to the floor
The 'woosh' you here is the entire booster vacuum 'dumping' rapidly, because the pedal went to the floor. With no air in lines, adjustments OK, a pedal should NEVER go to the floor regardless if booster working or not. With no leaks anywhere & bled properly; only way is if m/c seals allowing fluid to leak past seals.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: PhillyRag] #2519435
07/09/18 09:27 AM
07/09/18 09:27 AM
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Posts: 2,968
Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
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mymcodebee  Offline OP
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I think You are correct. I am thinking master cylinder is toast or not bench bled well enough. We are getter a new master today and seeing if that’s the issue. We started the car last night and split the booster and master apart and watched the booster functioning,it appears to be working correctly! Thanks guys and I’ll update tonight when new one is on.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: mymcodebee] #2519443
07/09/18 10:36 AM
07/09/18 10:36 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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when you pickup a MC you might grab those MC port brass plugs & see if your current MC hold pressure (light pedal pressure & stomp it) & if it ain't the current MC then you can return the new/rebuilt one & while you are there likely they will let you use the MC in the box to get the correct fittings (1/2-18 or 1/2-20 or 9/16-18 or 9/16-20 iirc).


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: RapidRobert] #2519564
07/09/18 03:39 PM
07/09/18 03:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,968
Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
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mymcodebee  Offline OP
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Will do. up


Last edited by mymcodebee; 07/09/18 05:38 PM.
Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: mymcodebee] #2519660
07/09/18 07:11 PM
07/09/18 07:11 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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mymcodebee, what you posted before is fine for bench bleeding.
in the old days when these were 500 dollar cars, I used to bleed them on the car with just my fingers over the ports.
worked just find back in the day when you didn't care how much brake fluid ate the fender paint.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle.. ??? [Re: Andrewh] #2519746
07/09/18 10:58 PM
07/09/18 10:58 PM
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VA
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dragon slayer Offline
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I am assuming your car, you wouldn't do that to a customers car would you?

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: dragon slayer] #2519897
07/10/18 10:34 AM
07/10/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,968
Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
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When I mentioned my buddy using his thumbs earlier and deleted it, it was due to the statement sounding confusing. My buddy could bleed the master by pushing the master with his thumbs instead of using a large screw driver etc.. Sorry for confusion.

Ok here is where were at. I diagnosed into the late hours last night. A new master and booster will show up today in case we need either.

Master on the car removed last night to check to see if it was bench bled correctly. It appears to be bled correctly. Plugged both ports with fittings, put in the vice and can easily push the cylinder in and out with a screw driver and see steady line of fluid pushing up into the port of front and back.
Also removed the ports and got solid streams of fluid shooting out of both ports.

While master was off started the car and pressed the pedal to check booster with pressure applied to the rod. It appears to function as it was intended by still has a very loud whooosing sound under the dash. This sound is literally louder in the car then in the engine bay.

adjusted the road to within .20" and put everything back together. When master was removed I plugged off lines with rubber plugs to limit air intake when rebleeding.
Bled lines again and did have a little air which was expected from taking it apart. Solid, very solid fluid at all four bleeders. Pedal feels hard at this point when not running but fire it up and a loud very easy pedel pressure to within a 1/2 of the floor,(or about 10% of the pedal throw) and it does actually hold brakes at that point. That's what I have and I have no idea why its doing it... Stumped and never run into this issue. So at this point I have one more night to try a few things and then we leave in the AM as is. So if you see this Cuda rolling in you may want to step back.... LOL. Thanks for all the help!

IMG955510.jpg
Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520007
07/10/18 02:45 PM
07/10/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,991
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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You might want to double check your brake adjustment.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520094
07/10/18 05:35 PM
07/10/18 05:35 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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I don't think this is correct.
Plugged both ports with fittings, put in the vice and can easily push the cylinder in and out with a screw driver and see steady line of fluid pushing up into the port of front and back.

if you plugged the ports and you had it bled correctly you should not be able to push the rod in at all. It should be hydro locked.

as to stumpy's comment, if you can pump the brakes and the pedal comes up, that would indicate adjustment issues, but it never hurts to check. It might also resolve the low pedal issue you see.

but I am with a bad master, even if it holds right now.

I used to have one that the rubber cup had a weak spot and it would fold sometimes allowing the pedal to go to the floor. But if I hit the brakes just right it would hold for a bit.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: Andrewh] #2520102
07/10/18 06:08 PM
07/10/18 06:08 PM
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Posts: 21,507
It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
Too Many Posts
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It's a dry heat
Originally Posted By Andrewh


if you plugged the ports and you had it bled correctly you should not be able to push the rod in at all. It should be hydro locked.



This is correct.
Once the rod moves forward it closes off the ports to the bore itself.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: gtx6970] #2520409
07/11/18 10:46 AM
07/11/18 10:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,968
Far Northeast.
mymcodebee Offline OP
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Last three posts are 100% correct. The master was leaking slightly out of one of my plugs which is why I could still push the cylinder when in the vise. The poster that mentioned the brake adjustment has nailed it. When the drums were pulled on the rear a short while ago I noticed my buddy using a rubber hammer to get them off... I instantly thought, wow those are a little tight and just assumed they are were very close. My buddy sent out many of the suspension parts to be powder coated years ago when powder coating was the rage. He would not do it now as it is a pita to deal with.. To wrap this story up quickly the hubs were sticking on the studs due to powder coating. I pulled them off the studs and it had a ton of play in the shoes! It made all the difference in the world! Can not believe it was something simply we overlooked but got to get out and load the car. Thanks for the help and advice and helping us get this car headed to Carlisle!

IMG955580.jpg
Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520554
07/11/18 02:45 PM
07/11/18 02:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
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469runner Offline
pro stock
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North Carolina
That is beautiful, can't wait to see it.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520560
07/11/18 02:49 PM
07/11/18 02:49 PM
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Posts: 32,991
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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stumpy  Offline
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Sometimes it's the simple stuff.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520753
07/11/18 09:57 PM
07/11/18 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,178
People's Republic of Kali
70runner Offline
super stock
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People's Republic of Kali
Glad you got it solved. Pretty unusual solution. Had EXACT same issue on daughters 69 Charger RT with power drums. Bench bled MC a couple times, seemed fine. Replaced booster. Pedal would still go to floor at startup. Replaced MC...all good since. They can be fickle.

Re: Last minute Brake issue before Carlisle. UPDATE [Re: mymcodebee] #2520783
07/11/18 11:21 PM
07/11/18 11:21 PM
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Posts: 8,707
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Andrewh Offline
master
Andrewh  Offline
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glad you got it working.

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