Correct........"driving" those side seals in can move the retainer........because as you know, you can't fully tighten the retainer and THEN get those seals in, you have to do it all together. So after it "fits" right, fill the channels with RTV, just a bit on the bottom...NOT a lot and drop the retainer in, tighten it down, clean off excess. Usually at this point, I will take a tube of RTV and use the white tube that comes with them, with just a bit cut off the end to make a small bead. Then put a small bead down each side and across the bottom, to make SURE there is no opening in the RTV seal

Monte

Hope this clears up any unwarranted misconception of our products.

Leaks cause frustration
Frustration clouds judgement
Public apology applied here and now Hope you will accept

Common factor of leaks with blacks, none with the other across number of shops / same time line-- is also a fact---frustration still weighs heavy

Develop a dependable new seal USA made that works and the world will beat a path to your door brother and price will not be an issue at all .

So three years later is there still a better seal in the orange versus black color ?



My newly rebuilt 432 Stroker 440 Source has a small leak and its definetly in this area

Valve Covers and Oil Pressure Sender perfect

I am still debating on if it was the actual seal , or those side o rings in the Mancini Retainer

It wasn't leaking prior to the rebuild this past fall , I offset the black fel pro seal at 6 and 12 and used black rtv on those side o rings on the Mancini Retainer for a few years and it was spotless

Only difference this time around is I don't know what black seal my engine builder used and the 440 Source crank is polished smooth versus the old factory crank that I took apart that was knurled in that seal area

Block was hot tanked prior to rebuild also , and I had a snap on borescope inbetween the engine and transmission double checking the cam plugs etc after engine was shut down looking for leaks

Had my engine builder offset the seals
at 6 and 12 , but he didn't use any rtv on those side o rings

Also on Hughes website they talk about Locktite 518 gluing the seal halves together where they contact


Just debating on these side o rings , black rtv or this anaerobic 518 gasket maker and the actual best seal before I attempt it again this weekend

You can use fluorescent die added to the oil and a black light to pinpoint the source of leak. May be worth it prior to a tear down.

To late

Already ripped apart and everything cleaned up

Was just debating on what seal , if anything has changed in these seal manufactures as of late

And these black o ring side seals if I should still use or just rtv or anaerobic gasket maker

I really think Monte was correct with his diagnosis of the seal retainer not fitting the block perfectly. This is something that MUST be perfect or is will not seal no matter what seal you have installed. Enlarging the holes will let the seal move to where it wants to be in relation to the crank journal center line.
This will be the way I do it next time if I ever have my engine apart again. It has a very slight leak there right now but nothing I'm worried about because it's maybe a teaspoon a month on the floor.
Gus

Are you using stock main cap bolts or studs now?
I use a adhesive silicone(it must have adhesive on the label ) to stop leaks on the main seals on BB by filling in the sides of the cap between the block and seal holder, both sides facing the flex plate, flywheel and also on the bottom, top of the seal holder, touching the block
I use a flat thin putty knife or small flat thin blade screw driver to force it into the hollow spots all the way all the way around the seal holder, take your time to get it correct
I also use a tiny dab on the seal half ends where they butt up against each other, I don't stagger them either I use a little tiny bit on the cap to the block surface also, not a bunch
I can't remember the last time I had a rear main seal leak, probably over 40 motors ago I can't say the same thing about the rear cam plug I seal them up now also with the adhesive silicone after they are installed all the way into the stop groove step
IHTHs

Hey bee1971, what was outcome with your seal and retainer?

I was doing same, and bought Mancini retainer kit with the 4 o-ring side seals. Dry fitting it I checked the gap between retainer o-rings and block. The o-rings dont even touch the block. .003" feeler gauge slides in between without any drag. The o-ring grooves seem too deep to me.

I think I will try directions as per post above - to fill the side seal with RTV. I don't know if I can fill that small o-ring groove all way toward cam from the bottom.

Also, Doing this with engine in the car,I don't see anyway to RTV the retainer once it is assembled. Maybe need to slide the trans back??

http://www.hemihaines.com/build-a-late-model-hemi.html

I viewed this step-by-step build on HemiHaines website and noticed how he put the main seal together. Looks pretty strait forward and allot of good pointers.

Orange/Brown Fel Pro Viton Seal

Permatex Black Rtv down the sides of those O-rings
Still used the O-rings , but also black rtv

Yes on those O-rings - The design or concept looks great but the O-ring itself needs to change , as in a little wider/thicker better material - I couldn't come up with anything else to use but they just don't fit properly in those grooves , way to loose ?

I knew where the retainer needed to bee seated/fitted prior to the installation as the marks where still there from when I mocked it up before the crank got dropped in

Seal halves at 6 - 12

Anyways its definitely not a seal issue , but rather those side O-rings and there fit seems to bee the culprit

So far so good

Except that it goes against just about every post or thread on the internet or engine builders advice on using any type of silicone on the seal halves or seals

So ? Does it work is the question of the day


The studs for sliding the retainer in place Mancini Racing supplies with there billet retainer - Definitely yes on those , for dry mock up and final installation

The rope seal offered by BEST GASKET is a black carbon looking kit with very specific instructions about install--IT WORKS without the drag of older real rope seals--This part works to cure the leaky rear seal blues

Agreed.... of the couple rear main seal leak issues I’ve had, from what I’ve found are two issues. Most seals are sh@t, and the side seals push the retainer off center(well, if the retainers are machined properly)! I will only use the orange felpro seals and RTV on the sides of the retainer only. This procedure has cured both of my leaks and they are still dry.... I did index the seal at 6-12 on the 383, however on the Hemi I put them as designed at 3-9. Both ways worked so.... you be the judge which works better!

I’m not sure of the exact timeline, but I think I started having intermittent rear seal leak issues when the gasket kits stopped using the hard white-ish side seals for the retainer.
Those were the ones you dipped in mineral spirits, and just slipped them into place.... then after some time they would swell up in place to fill the void, after the seal cap was already in place and torqued down.

Once those went away, that’s when the problems started to pop up for me.

This thread is a good tutorial for someone who’s had a chronic leaker.

I have just about finished fitting the engine back into my car after a major engine bay repaint and big stroker rebuild, Im more worried about a rear main leak than if the engine build is good.

I never had a leak with the as you say the whitish type seals , then they came out with fuzzy pipe cleaner side seals that you just kept pushing in the sealant . Now the plastic wedge type, yep , drip , drip , drip

I didn't read all of the posts, but I have a question. Why doesn't someone make a seal retainer so that a one piece seal can be used. After the responses, I'll give my logic.

He goops RTV into the seal slot that is in the block? What happens if you what to replace the seal with engine in the car? I never saw anyone recommend to do that.

P

I would be interested in seeing how you would get the seal over the crank flange.