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Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: CMcAllister] #2492578
05/05/18 11:07 PM
05/05/18 11:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
OhioMopar Offline OP
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OhioMopar  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,779
Mt.Gilead, Ohio
Originally Posted By CMcAllister
Having been involved with guys who have both, all I can say is comparing stick cars to auto cars, even with a brake, is apples to oranges.

I have no doubts.


1969 Dart GTS 340
1969 Super Bee X9 N-96
1969 Coronet R/T X9 N-96
2015 Dodge Dart GT
2019 Ram 2500 Big Horn.
Looking for the original block for my Bee. The last 4 are 7449
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2492692
05/06/18 09:56 AM
05/06/18 09:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
I Live Here
fourgearsavoy  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,554
Rittman Ohio
I've been trying to do this street/strip stick car deal for over 25 years with my Savoy and the closest I have ever got was with an adjustable clutch. The street type drag radial would hit hard then release then hit again and I didn't have a good enough shock to keep it planted through the 60'
If you had a "good" double adjustable shock on the front and back and a "good" adjustable clutch with an iron disc you MIGHT have a chance at making it work. Now you will have about 5 grand in a clutch and suspension just to run a radial on the back realcrazy

There is no setup that will do both drag and street effectively on any tire but you are really swimming upstream trying to do it on a radial.

I have a picture somewhere in my old computer where I actually have 3 wheels off the ground on the hit at Norwalk. That was before I put a single adjustable on it and that helped keep the tire on the ground at the hit but the car still would come unglued downtrack on the gear changes.

Good luck with the quest up

I finally gave up on the radials and keep my M/T ET drags for the track and S/R radials for street driving.

Gus beer


64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2492700
05/06/18 10:14 AM
05/06/18 10:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,999
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Question; I read that the radials break loose on the shift? Would an rpm limiter hooked to the clutch linkage help by killing power for the shift?
My guess is if the limiter acts fast enough, it should. There must be a way to skin this cat that works,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Last edited by gregsdart; 05/06/18 10:16 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: MoparBilly] #2492708
05/06/18 10:40 AM
05/06/18 10:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340 Offline
Chicken Little
dustergirl340  Offline
Chicken Little

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Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
Originally Posted By MoparBilly
I know quite a few guys who have tried to make it work, and put so much effort into it that they put data collection in and started comparing the driveshaft and wheel speed to engine rpm and came up with this conclusion: "Drag Radials and Manual Transmissions don't mix"

But, hey, if you want to beat your head against that wall...go for it.


lol!

Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2492749
05/06/18 12:24 PM
05/06/18 12:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
sgcuda Offline
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Posts: 4,243
Charlotte, North Carolina
Hemi-it is, Scott Smith Harms; Think of a Clutch tamer on the same lines as a screen door piston. Internal pressure release can be changed with a simple turn of an adjusting screw. They are a universal fit. Very simple, excellent idea to control the launch. The problem that I see is that dropping the clutch pedal on the launch is a completely different set of circumstances than upshifting during the run. The timeframe that is necessary for a gear change is not the same as the time frame to get a car to move from a dead stop. The Clutch Tamer release time is consistent during the run. My opinion is that it would be too long between shifts and might prematurely burn out the clutch on a high hp car. And if using a clutchless trans, there is no cushion for the trans on the gear shifts if not using an adjustable clutch.

Last edited by sgcuda; 05/06/18 12:25 PM.
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2492805
05/06/18 02:37 PM
05/06/18 02:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 103
Washington
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weedburner Offline
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weedburner  Offline
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Posts: 103
Washington
The ClutchTamer gives you a way to control the pulldown rate of the engine, basically how fast the clutch pulls down engine rpm.

Here's a graph of a ClutchTamer launch with clutchless shifts, notice the difference in pulldown rate between launch with the ClutchTamer and the shifts without. There's adsolutely no wheelspeed after a 7100rpm launch, very radial friendly...



This was using a G101a, Ram diaphragm PP and Ram 900 series disc. The class doesn't allow radials (sealed engine class), so the little wheelspeed spikes after the shifts were not a problem for the slicks he was running.

If he were running radials, either more delay or a tap of the clutch pedal would have eliminated wheelspeed after the shifts as well. Not a problem for those using the clutch pedal to shift, they do it automatically.

Grant

Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2493042
05/07/18 01:42 AM
05/07/18 01:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,589
Topeka Kansas
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ksj Offline
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Topeka Kansas
How well does the Clutchtamer work with trannys that the clutch is used on each gear change?

Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2493063
05/07/18 03:23 AM
05/07/18 03:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 103
Washington
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weedburner Offline
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Washington
This is an Erpm graph from a different car/class, showing a ClutchTamer pass on radials just stabbing the clutch to shift (not bouncing the pedal off the stop), also using a single disc/diaphragm setup...



Notice that engine rpm is dragged down after the shift at a much slower rate than the clutchless shift graph posted earlier. When rpm gets dragged straight down quickly, that indicates a near instant release of inertia energy which almost always knocks the tires loose. ClutchTamer spreads that energy release out over a longer time frame to reduce it's intensity, which helps keep radials hooked. If the clutch pedal had been bounced off the stop on the shifts, pulldown rate after the shift would have been softer and more like the launch.

Grant

Last edited by weedburner; 05/07/18 04:12 AM.
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2493072
05/07/18 03:52 AM
05/07/18 03:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 103
Washington
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weedburner Offline
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weedburner  Offline
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Posts: 103
Washington
In the black Racepak clutchless shift graph above, launch engagement was softened by the ClutchTamer and engine rpm was pulled down by the clutch at a rate of 2490 rpm per second. The 1/2 shift was not softened much by the ClutchTamer, and that same clutch pulled engine rpm down at the rate of 12,626 rpm per second. Thats over 5x the intensity of energy release. Easy to see how tires get knocked loose on the shifts, also easy to see why softening the shifts is an important part of sticking radials.

Grant

Last edited by weedburner; 05/09/18 03:23 PM.
Re: Drag radials, adjustable suspension, manual transmission. [Re: OhioMopar] #2493960
05/09/18 02:31 PM
05/09/18 02:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 103
Washington
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weedburner Offline
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Washington
Here's a comparison of two nearly identical back-to-back runs with zero wheelspin during launch. The blue pass has less clutch delay and bogs to 4622 rpm at .728 sec into the run. The yellow pass has an additional turn of delay added to the ClutchTamer adjustment. The added delay raised the bog rpm to 5202, and it reached the top of 1st gear 0.089 sec quicker. The added delay also slightly reduced the wheelspeed spikes after the shifts, which improved net power overall to the point where the yellow pass reached the same driveshaft rpm 0.502 quicker at the top of high gear.



Notice that the car gains rpm at the same rates on both passes. The improvements come on the parts of the graph where the engine is losing rpm, which are basically controlled by the clutch.

Grant

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