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Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: DoubleD] #2483723
04/16/18 04:13 PM
04/16/18 04:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
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Texas
Chief Offline OP
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It is the billet pump. Not overtightened, not warped. It will stick on the bench..

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Al_Alguire] #2483727
04/16/18 04:16 PM
04/16/18 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
I have had good luck with the Indy covers too. Use them for a lot of engines actually.

Do you kill the engine at the stripe or not?


Yes, I always kick it to neutral and kill the engine..

Sounds like Indy may be the way to go..

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Chief] #2483729
04/16/18 04:21 PM
04/16/18 04:21 PM
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Las Vegas
Al_Alguire Offline
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I don't know that this plays into anything at all but I am the same, kill the engine in the lights. We speculated that my issues may have had something to do with it as well. Mind you my issue was with a KB pump but still wondered if it was a factor at all...I had it happen to two different pumps and we tried various remedies. Finally just changed the pump never had an issue after that.


"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."

"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Chief] #2483731
04/16/18 04:22 PM
04/16/18 04:22 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
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Originally Posted By Chief
Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
I have had good luck with the Indy covers too. Use them for a lot of engines actually.

Do you kill the engine at the stripe or not?


Yes, I always kick it to neutral and kill the engine..

Sounds like Indy may be the way to go..

Dave


I have a new Indy cover that I don't need. I will send you a photo. If you can give me 75% I'll be happy.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Chief] #2483737
04/16/18 04:39 PM
04/16/18 04:39 PM
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New York
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I would also inspect the area of the relief port (leading from the retracted valve position either to the LP side or to the pan). I suspect many aren't large enough to dump quickly especially with high viscosity and pressure. Some automotive pumps allow the piston to retract way past the port edge, meaning the port could be extended backward (examine the casting to be sure there's enough metal, duh). I wouldn't try to enlarge the circumference for exactly the reason mentioned: stability in the passage may be compromised.
In the Chevrolet L6 pump I'm working on now, the port is only 61% as large as the passage, the piston's OD is about 80% covered by the casting.

There has been some back & forth about why/when to dump excess back into the feed side as opposed to right into the pan: relief oil to the LP port causes turbulence at the inlet and may aerate flow? Not sure when this happens.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: rickseeman] #2483836
04/16/18 07:53 PM
04/16/18 07:53 PM
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Texas
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[quote=rickseemanI have a new Indy cover that I don't need. I will send you a photo. If you can give me 75% I'll be happy. [/quote]

Rick, very interested.. Is it the one with the spin on filter adaptor? Also, I assume it will work with the milodon billet pump?

email: dcovey1@hot.rr.com

Thanks

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Al_Alguire] #2483841
04/16/18 08:03 PM
04/16/18 08:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 201
Texas
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Originally Posted By Al_Alguire
I don't know that this plays into anything at all but I am the same, kill the engine in the lights. We speculated that my issues may have had something to do with it as well. Mind you my issue was with a KB pump but still wondered if it was a factor at all...I had it happen to two different pumps and we tried various remedies. Finally just changed the pump never had an issue after that.


I can't see killing it in the lights would have any affect on the relief valve sticking, plus I have also let it drop back to an idle and it still stuck.

I think I may have 2 issues going on here # 1 is I think the bore is to large as it doesn't keep the valve centered allowing it to drop/tilt and catch when it try's to seat. # 2 may be what polysphere alludes to. If the reliefs in the valve were larger to allow it to start dumping the valve may never open far enough to clear the front of the bore and drop/tilt as it would be supported on both ends.

By the way I just downloaded my data from the weekend oil pressure was 97 lbs at the finish line.

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: polyspheric] #2483844
04/16/18 08:10 PM
04/16/18 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
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Texas
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Originally Posted By polyspheric
I would also inspect the area of the relief port (leading from the retracted valve position either to the LP side or to the pan). I suspect many aren't large enough to dump quickly especially with high viscosity and pressure. Some automotive pumps allow the piston to retract way past the port edge, meaning the port could be extended backward (examine the casting to be sure there's enough metal, duh). I wouldn't try to enlarge the circumference for exactly the reason mentioned: stability in the passage may be compromised.
In the Chevrolet L6 pump I'm working on now, the port is only 61% as large as the passage, the piston's OD is about 80% covered by the casting.

There has been some back & forth about why/when to dump excess back into the feed side as opposed to right into the pan: relief oil to the LP port causes turbulence at the inlet and may aerate flow? Not sure when this happens.


I actually was considering opening up the three reliefs in the valve. But wasn't sure it was a good idea 2 days from raceday. Do you think that could contribute to my oil pressure trace on my graph looking like pressure oscillates10 pounds or so as I go down the track? I have never had a nice smooth pressure trace.

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Chief] #2483862
04/16/18 08:39 PM
04/16/18 08:39 PM
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Posts: 4,219
New York
polyspheric Offline
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IMHO it's possible, lots going on.
OTOH it's reading from the sender - how far is that away from the relief valve? Even if it makes you nervous it may not reflect any change in the main gallery.


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: polyspheric] #2484201
04/17/18 12:28 PM
04/17/18 12:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
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Texas
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Originally Posted By polyspheric
IMHO it's possible, lots going on.
OTOH it's reading from the sender - how far is that away from the relief valve? Even if it makes you nervous it may not reflect any change in the main gallery.


Oil pressure sensor is at the rear of the block, mounted on frame rail (dragster) -3 line feeds it.

I'm going to take my extra plunger/valve and rework the three reliefs to start opening sooner. I'll take the other in case it doesn't work out. Good thing this is a mopar, taking the valve in and out is simple..lol

Thanks for the input..

I bought the indy pump cover from Rick but will probably not see it before I leave Friday.

Thanks

Dave


Dave Covey
Re: Milodon Oil Pump Issue [Re: Chief] #2484306
04/17/18 04:51 PM
04/17/18 04:51 PM
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Posts: 4,219
New York
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You're very welcome, please LUK anything you discover?
Thanks.


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