Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: jcc]
#2317024
06/06/17 06:27 AM
06/06/17 06:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
pro stock
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Northern Calyfornua
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Finally it is more compressible than the glycol and ester fluids. This compressibility goes up with temperature.
I concur with most of your other points, but I have "read" the compressibility issue with DOT5 is, it traps/entrains air when pouring, and first impressions just after installing, leads to the compressibility observations, unfairly, if confirmable. The rising temp issue leading to increased compressibility, is the first I have heard of that condition. A reason for the assertion of compressibility is that if dot 5 container is not handled very gently, that very fine air bubbles can be produced in the fluid that will cause this problem as air is compressible. The key is to not shake the container and if it has been do not use until fluid is again clear. I have no idea how long that might take.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2317831
06/07/17 10:07 PM
06/07/17 10:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
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Nebraska
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I just recommend what handles actual use the best. I dont really care what is best at sitting still. People out there beating the snot out of their cars lap after lap, I can pretty much promise do not use DOT 5.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: Sxrxrnr]
#2369449
09/12/17 03:21 PM
09/12/17 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
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Finally it is more compressible than the glycol and ester fluids. This compressibility goes up with temperature.
I concur with most of your other points, but I have "read" the compressibility issue with DOT5 is, it traps/entrains air when pouring, and first impressions just after installing, leads to the compressibility observations, unfairly, if confirmable. The rising temp issue leading to increased compressibility, is the first I have heard of that condition. A reason for the assertion of compressibility is that if dot 5 container is not handled very gently, that very fine air bubbles can be produced in the fluid that will cause this problem as air is compressible. The key is to not shake the container and if it has been do not use until fluid is again clear. I have no idea how long that might take. I know this is an older post, but I heard of the bubble issue too. I read somewhere to put container of brake fluid in a pan of boiling water just before use. The warmer temperatures will cause the smaller bubbles to expand and float to the top. Handle gently after wards once it cools.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: AndyF]
#2370757
09/14/17 03:03 PM
09/14/17 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138 East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner
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I tried that trick once to get air bubbles out of Dot 5 and just about killed myself. The Dot 5 gives off some powerful fumes when it is hot and I haven't to get a chest full of the fumes. Not a good deal at all.
These days I stick with a high quality non Dot 5 brake fluid and change it on a regular basis. I find that if I flush the brakes every couple of years then there isn't any rust and pedal stays nice and firm. I don't recall fumes being getting too strong. Then again, maybe my memory is fuzzy because of the fumes. But I heated up a pan of water and sat container in the water. Never got above boiling point of water, so maybe that wasn't warm enough.
68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project 69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed. 70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project 2023 Ford Mach 1
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: RoadRunner]
#2370771
09/14/17 03:21 PM
09/14/17 03:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I would think a fluid designed for high temp (500F+?) use would be rather limited in ANY fume discharge, as fumes indicate an increase in evaporation of a fluid component, ie bubbles? I suspect another unknown factor in the Andy choking experience.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: jcc]
#2373558
09/19/17 09:15 PM
09/19/17 09:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 190 NJ
JH23
member
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member
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Posts: 190
NJ
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I'm using Dot 5 with no issues so far.
Last edited by JH23; 09/20/17 07:58 AM.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2373824
09/20/17 11:18 AM
09/20/17 11:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645 Phila. Pa.
Mattax
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
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Air can get in a system when servicing (replacing) components. With respect to compressibility, introduced air bubbles was not the characteristic I was referring to. If air is entrapped in the system (bubbles) this will of course be noticible when the brakes are pushed hard because air is far more compressible than hydraulic fluid. It appears that the reason silicone based fluids are more compressible relates to the density of the fluid. Further, that the dimethyl polysiloxane contains significantly more disolved air than glycol ether based fluids. This is air between the molecules and does not effect volume. This dissolved air is not something to generally be concerned about. The problems for racers is twofold. First, they tend to be very sensitive to changes in pedal feel and vehicle response. Second, the brake fluid can get hot, very hot. The silicone fluids get noticibly more compressible as the temperature rises. This is disconcerting to say the least. For making a decision about whether this may be a concern here's something to consider. If the pads and shoes aren't getting that hot, then the brake fluid isnt going be very hot. So the first question is whether the car will be in situations that require linings for higher temperatures and/or use up pads each event. ref. Air solubility information comes SAE J1705, Appendix A, A.2.2.8 which was quoted in two unrelated sources. One a manufacturer's promotional paper The ABCs of Brake Fluid and the other in appendix A of a 1992 US Army investigation Purdy, Ellen Report 2505 (pdf) The practical effect of compressibility is covered in the army report but does not cover situations where the fluid temperatures get elevated. A 1981 SAE paper given by G W Holbrook has been referenced for testing that showed that gycol fluids compressed less than .3% from 77 to 250 degrees F. Whereas silicone fluid compressed .85% at 77 F and had almost doubled that to 1.54% at 250 F. At 400 degrees, the silicone compressed 2.41% while the glycol was around 0.5% A couple of important points here. If the glycol based fluid is old, it will have absorbed moisture and its boiling point could be under 400 F. Second is that depending on the braking system, the compressibility may be noticible not just in feel but in pedal motion. Holbrook reported additional 1/2" of pedal movement at 400 F. The reporter (who clearly prefers DOT5) calculated increased pedal movement for his triumph at different conditions. He came up with very just 1/10" with new pads at 150 F, to 0.4" with worn pads when at 440F. One thing every source seems to agree on is not to mix the two types of fluid!
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2374488
09/21/17 01:32 PM
09/21/17 01:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild
ThermoQuad
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 2,468
Answering the call of the wild
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No one has to talk you out of anything. Dot 5 is not allowed in most high performance driving schools and road racing venues. When it gets hot the brake pedal goes to sponge. It's a poor choice in the handling forum. Period I don't care of about analalfie and his whatever car and his braking data. As usual advice is only good if you listen to it.
Last edited by Tom_Q; 09/21/17 01:34 PM.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: Mattax]
#2376143
09/24/17 11:21 PM
09/24/17 11:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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... it is hard to fathom ... Would not be the first time we get lost in the weeds. Dude, You're the guy who asked. No one is lost in the weeds but you. You can't fathom the pucker factor when your foot goes another 3/4" at 100 mph? Really? Yes, really, I only push hard enough to accomplish the task, and if one is so set in driving our non F1 cars that the idea of pushing 2% more fluid volume is a huge problem, you might want to stay in the weeds (every turn, every second, every time, every wind shift, any fuel consumption, etc requires a new/different braking pressure as conditions vary) (I have no idea where your 3/4" number comes from) (and if you are getting 400F fluid temps, you are on the proverbial edge in more ways then just fluid temps) ( a sudden 400F fluid temp rise would be a rather unusual set of circumstances) Dude.
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2412317
12/02/17 06:00 PM
12/02/17 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,531 Jacksonville, FL
Chris2581
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Posts: 6,531
Jacksonville, FL
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We use DOT 5 in Postal vehicles(the old ones) We have never had a problem with corrosion,air or bubbles. I use it in my cars with no problems.
Nautilus Racing- We use Superformance gaskets and Turbo Action converters/products.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: dangina]
#2415356
12/08/17 06:48 PM
12/08/17 06:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,148 Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 16,148
Mesa, Arizona
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DOT 5 is the way to go with fresh paint. Problem I ran into is the stuff is hard to bleed out with fresh lines and getting a good seal at the fittings.
“So if it’s on the internet it must be true”
Abe Lincoln
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2415517
12/08/17 11:50 PM
12/08/17 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482 Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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You should be using DOT4 in a performance car. You can replace DOT3 in any vehicle directly without worrying about having leftovers.
I use ATE Typ200 which has a 534 F boiling point. It also has good anti-corrosion properties. Spec'd by people who manufacture OEM brake calipers.
I am not aware of any OEM vehicle that comes with DOT5. My job is working on ESC modules and we don't allow DOT5 with our parts whatsoever.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: goldduster318]
#2416909
12/11/17 07:03 PM
12/11/17 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,823 Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 25,823
Rio Linda, CA
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. I am not aware of any OEM vehicle that comes with DOT5. Avanti, Harley Davidson, probably some exotics.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2416981
12/11/17 09:08 PM
12/11/17 09:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
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Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Dot 5 or Dot 5.1?
Dot 5 isn't compatible with ABS systems so I doubt any OEM is using it.
5.1 is NOT silicone based.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
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Re: Talk me out of DOT 5 brake fluid?
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#2417409
12/12/17 04:02 PM
12/12/17 04:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880 -
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
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For what it's worth, for street use I haven't had any issues with the DOT5, but it's also only been 1,500 miles. (Have had DOT 5 in a street car for over 20 years... 20,000+ miles... In all kinds of conditions... Zero issues... Wouldn't even consider going back to 3...
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